Sky Airline, CEO, José Ignacio Dougnac on IPO plans and challenges and opportunities in the region

Transcript

Peter Cerdá:Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to everyone, and welcome to this session. First of all, I want to thank CAPA for the opportunity to moderate this evening's discussion with one of the up-and-coming CEOs that we have in Latin America, the CEO of Sky Airlines, José Ignacio Dougnac. So I want to welcome José. Bienvenido. Welcome to this session. Hope you're doing well.

José Ignacio Dougnac:Very nice being here. Thank you for the invitation.

Peter Cerdá:So let's kick it off. I mean, I'm going to just start off with what's been in our life for the last year and a half almost with the crisis in terms of the challenges that the industry is facing, what you're facing as CEO of Sky Airlines, and what you're living now. Just less than a week ago, the Chilean authorities basically closed off the country again with restrictions, and that's impacted your airline. So what are you doing about this? Because it's not the first time you faced closure of borders or harsh restrictions, but this time it's really causing a greater impact than it was in months past.

José Ignacio Dougnac:Well, this time we have more experience. You know, dealing with these type of situations. But as you might expect, we weren't— we didn't expect this to happen at this point in time. We thought that with the vaccination program, things were going to go upside and not downside like they're going now. But apparently it's been quite typical, you know, countries vaccinating very fast their population and relaxing a little bit just a little bit too early before the vaccine actually takes, you know, place in the population. So it's been tough. As you know, last year was quite tough. In 2019, we moved 54% less passengers than in 2018. We were hit with the crisis in Chile and Peru late March. So we had a pretty good January and February in 2020, but late March, you know, the crisis started really developing in Chile and Peru, and that meant 54% less passengers. But on that bright side, you know, the industry as a whole was 64% down in terms of passengers. So we are a little bit, you know, better than the industry average. And of course, you know, us being with a big domestic operation also helps us because domestic is recovering a little bit faster than international, as you know.

Peter Cerdá:José, from your standpoint, 2020 obviously was a difficult year not only for Sky and for the entire industry. You took over the helm at Sky during the pandemic, so you didn't have a honeymoon. You were thrown in right into in the middle of the crisis when everything was being locked down, not much time to learn your new position, although you were the CFO of the company. What has this year taught you from transitioning from a CFO to CEO and taking the helm and having to navigate through the crisis all up to now?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Yeah, well, actually, Peter, I was announced to be the new CEO And like 5 days after that, the first case came to Chile. So it didn't take long before the crisis hit, and we were coming through, you know, a quite significant crisis on October 18th, 2019 as well in Chile. So, but one of the things that you really prove in this period of crisis are the values of the company. You need to be able to set up priorities based on your values, and you need to really lead based on that. It's been hard, and it's important to set up priorities. We did. We set up, you know, safety, people, and sustainability as top 3 priorities for managing the crisis, and we have made decisions based on that. During that time. It's very important to act quick, but also to act with all this uncertainty. If you don't have a clear priority to make decisions with, it's going to be all over the place. So we were able to set those up, and we have been managing the crisis with a very clear path forward.

Peter Cerdá:José, one of the aspects, and you mentioned this some time ago in another interview, where You said there is practically no airline in the world capable of getting out of this without any kind of help. Chile has always been a country that's always been forward-thinking, very proactive, has permitted the industry to grow. But during the crisis, the Chilean government has not provided the financial support. At this point in time, what is your feeling about government support? Is it too late? Or it's never too late and whatever the government can do to help the industry during this period of time would be welcome?

José Ignacio Dougnac:You know, it's never too late. That's important. The crisis has not finished yet. But we don't expect, you know, financial support like you've seen in the US or in Europe. But we do expect some support in terms of working together with the industry in order to have good comeback from this crisis. You know, we've been working, you know, side by side with the government in order, for example, to transport goods, transport vaccines. You know, we've been transporting vaccines to all over the country, and we've helped as an industry, not only Sky, the whole industry has helped, you know, moving the vaccines from one place to the other. So we are working together, and we need to be able to work together in terms of finding the best possible possible solution for bringing up tourism within the country and also the airline industry. When I said that the— sorry, when I said that the airlines needed support, I didn't only mean government support, I mean support in general. We've had so much support from everybody, from our people, from our suppliers, from the leasing industry, the banking industry, some of the government as well. So that's what I meant when everybody in this industry will need support, not only from governments, but in general terms from others, from some of or most of their stakeholders.

Peter Cerdá:Do you feel, you know, one of the challenges that we've had as an industry is sometimes gathering that sympathy from the general public. The general public at times believe COVID is the fault of air transportation. But you just gave a few good examples, particularly in Latin America. The vaccine is going to be transported to all the communities through air transportation. It won't be by rail, it won't be in most cases by trucks, it's going to be by airplanes. We've been able to move medical equipment from China, from Europe, from other parts of the world through air transportation. And you've been able to also, I know you have, your airline has also transported medical professionals throughout the country. So the industry has really tried to play a very responsible and active role. Do you think at times the industry takes— has— is hit hard because it's considered at times by some of our citizens in Latin America as an industry of the rich, only the rich travel, rather than it's a mode of transportation that brings social and economic prosperity to everyone?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Yeah, well, for sure that the airline industry is absolutely necessary for a country to develop, you know, how it's been in Latin America in general terms in the last, you know, couple of decades. We are a part, an important part of the GDP of the country. We do give, you know, in Chile, we're roughly 200,000 employment that we give as an industry as a whole, and we move roughly 3% of the GDP. So we're a big part of the economy, but we're also a social service. You know, we connect people, we connect goods, we bring a lot of basic things to society itself. I think, and the numbers actually show, we made a study before the pandemic about the reputation of the industry before COVID We did one, you know, basically January 2021, and the reputation of the company, of the industry in general terms in Chile, has grown significantly over, you know, roughly 15 points higher today than it was, you know, pre-COVID. So the airline industry has has done very important support for the society here in Chile, not only with vaccines, but with medical supplies, and also with, you know, with being able to keep connectivity going. You know, things were at the beginning, nobody had a lot of information, nobody knew exactly how COVID would develop, the vaccines, etc., and connectivity was key. We worked— With the general public and we work with the government in order to find a way to adapt our processes in order to make aviation safe for our people, safe for our customers as well. And I believe that we've done a good job in general terms. And that's why you can see that the numbers are really improved in terms of reputation of the industry itself. You know, we've been a part of the solution. That's what we want. Of course, we need support in order to go through this. Everybody, as I said, you know, going from, you know, 2019 levels, going down 64% in a year average, it's not easy. And in order to deal with that, we need support from various stakeholders. But we've been trying to do as much as we can to help be a part of the solution to this problem.

Peter Cerdá:José, in terms of being a solution to the problem, the industry has been hit hard during this pandemic. We've had several airlines in our region that have had to file for Chapter 11. We have half a dozen airlines based in Latin America and the Caribbean that have stopped flying altogether. They will not return. What do you see as the scenario, the future scenario for the region? Because you're an airline that is growing.

José Ignacio Dougnac:Yes.

Peter Cerdá:You're not— your focus is not solely Chile. You're now growing into other markets. What do you see the landscape in terms of post-COVID? Are we going to have less airlines? Do you expect more airlines to go bankrupt and close? What's your perspective that you're seeing from the CEO level?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Well, that's a million-dollar question. I believe that the scenario is still going to be tough. 2021 is going to be a really tough year. Probably 2022 is going to be tough as well. Domestic markets should recover a little bit, but the international— and longer the flights, the more it'll take to recover. And there's a lot of complexities, as you know. You need countries to actually face different scenarios together. You need to find a protocol. I know that IATA is working on protocols to establish the capacity to identify vaccinated people, but you need to set up protocols and you need to set up countries being okay with those protocols to get people in and out. So it's not going to be easy. And I also believe that the You know, there's still going to be a lot of competition. Supply is just a lot higher than demand in the region, and that's going to remain that way for some time. So I think that the recovery—

Peter Cerdá:sorry. Do you see possibilities for consolidation, more consolidation in the region, or from your standpoint as an ultra-low-cost carrier, more opportunities? Do you see the ULCCs taking advantage of the crisis to further expand throughout the region?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Well, I believe that there is opportunity for both, actually, Peter. I believe that the LCCs are definitely in a good point of starting point, especially the ones that have a lot of, you know, for example, like us, we have a lot of domestic presence. So our cost structure is low and And as I showed you before, you know, having the industry 64% down, we're only 54% down. So we're outpacing the industry in terms of recovery, and we expect that to remain. So LCCs do have an advantage, and, you know, LCCs that have a lot of domestic presence have an even better advantage. So there's an opportunity for LCCs to fly. Also considering the GDP per capita, you know, that in countries in Latin America is going to be impacted by COVID. You know, you have countries like Peru who had a huge impact on their GDP in 2020, and that's going to have an effect on spending money, basically, which, you know, tourism and others. So LCCs and having cheap fares, you know, will also be important. Also considering that business travel will go, probably go down and will take time to recover. That's what we've seen in previous crises. And this one is much deeper than anyone, any other crisis before. So, so we believe that LCCs are definitely in a better, on a better place. But also we see supply being too big in the short term. So Possibilities of consolidation are there, you know, they're much, much bigger today than they were a couple of years ago.

Peter Cerdá:How do you see it from the passenger side, from the consumer? Do you see permanent changes in the way the travelers will book and what their experience will be? Do you think we'll come back to what we were before, or that's in the past and this new way of how we travel will be the norm until we have to adjust to something new?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Well, I believe there will be some changes. You know, digitalization has, you know, been sped up so fast during this pandemic, and I believe that, you know, we are an industry that's basically, you know, very, very digital. But not everywhere, especially in Latin America, not everywhere everything is so digital. So this will help All the Latin America in particular to get more digital and to, you know, jump into these processes that we've as an airline been working through. I believe that airlines will also speed up their digitalization processes. They will try to simplify them. They will try to broaden those— the access. And that would definitely change the game. You know, it will change your customer base. And if your customer base changes, you need to be able to adapt to those customers. So having more tourism, more VFR, and less business would need to significantly— you know, most companies will have to adapt to those new customer bases. And that's why I do expect changes to come, to become much more simple processes, much more customer-oriented, and And more digital as well.

Peter Cerdá:So you talk about digital, simple, better service. Let me shift over to government a little bit. And you worked in government before coming to Sky. You worked in the Ministry of Health. I wish we would have you now in the Ministry of Health in Chile. I think maybe things would go faster. But from shifting from government to the private sector, the challenge for the industry, as you've been one of the loud advocates in the region, is the potential is there. People want to travel. Every, you know, airlines of legacy, traditional, low-cost can all succeed. But the framework that we have in place, primarily because of our government, makes it very difficult. Makes it difficult to grow, makes it difficult to expand. What do you see moving forward? Because as an industry, we're all talking about the need for better collaboration with government. That has been IATA's voice, that's been your voice. What does government need to do? Is there an opportunity now that we're going through this crisis on a new way to work moving forward?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Yeah, well, definitely this crisis has, you know, brought up a lot of, you know, more communication between different stakeholders, one of them being governments, you know. We've been trying and working really close, and you've also been a part of that in different countries, Peter. We've been in meetings with different government officials together, and we've been trying to find out the best way to move forward with all of our processes to make aviation safe, but also to try to make a recovery that goes along with the expectations of the country in terms of—

Peter Cerdá:Yeah.

José Ignacio Dougnac:employment, in terms of tourism, in terms of economic recovery as well. So we've been working really close to government officials, and I believe it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity to strengthen those relationships, to see that as more of a collaborative way in which we can move forward, in which we can help each other develop countries and develop aviation. Because they are very well aligned. You know, you know that $1 spent in aviation means $8 spent within the rest of the economy in a country— hotels, restaurants, and such, you know. So we believe we can align each other, and there's opportunities for both of us to better set up policies in order to To fulfill aviation. For example, one of the things that we've always thought would make great sense within the region is to try to set up a boarding tax that it's not either the long-haul tax or the international tax or the domestic, but a regional boarding tax which allows, you know, the region to share more tourism within, within the region itself. You know that we have similar realities, you know, our GDP per capita is similar. It's not the same as Europe or the US, you know. So setting up a regional tax that would allow more tourism to go through different countries within the region would definitely help each country to develop. So we have ideas, and we believe that being close would help us develop not only aviation in the region, but also the economy and the social well-being of the region.

Peter Cerdá:In terms of recovery, and you just talked about this inter-regional tax competitiveness, taxes, fees, infrastructure, regulatory framework, even the environment. From your perspective in moving forward, while all these different items and pillars are certainly going to be at the forefront, Which one do you think is the one that you would say, as an industry, we're able to be successful with governments moving forward? Which one would it be?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Well, it's a tough question. I believe that setting up the rules for aviation and taxes in particular, it's quite important. We as an LCC know That to choose an airport in order to fly to, we really took consideration of the cost of operating to that airport in particular, and the taxes associated to that. They vary so much. And that changes, that changes the decisions that airlines make in order to fly from one place to the other, and changes the decisions that customers make. For example, flying from Santiago to Buenos Aires, it's a 2-hour flight. It's not far, it shouldn't be expensive. But only in taxes you pay more than $100 per passenger. So that makes it really tough for, you know, people to go and spend, you know, a weekend or 4 or 5 days in Buenos Aires. It becomes a big thing, you know, when it could be something more regular and easier for people to travel to. So having the right mindset and identifying long-term opportunities, because this is not easy, you know, no government— for no government is easy to reduce taxes or to charge less, you know, they all have, most of them have deficits in the region. But looking really long-term and identifying the potential that this has. it's really worth it. You know, you can see examples like Panama, for example, or like even Chile. You know, the Chilean government decided to reduce domestic and international boarding taxes in order to further develop the industry, and that has worked well. You know, the growth that we've seen in the past, you know, years of aviation, it's been fantastic, and I hope that we can translate that to international regional flights as well.

Peter Cerdá:We're going to stay on this topic, but I do want to talk a little bit about your airline, Sky Airlines. Where this is being taped, it's going to be made available all around the world. Sky is a very strong regional carrier, particularly in the southern part of South America. So I want to deep dive a little bit. You started as basically a domestic Chilean carrier, and now you're growing into an intra-regional carrier. And I have to say, possibly even moving in the future because of the airplanes you have with opportunities moving into the US and so on. How do you see your— now with COVID and once we get out, what's your future growth? How far, how big does Sky Airlines want to get and how competitive in terms of all those big boys in the region? Where do you want to be in the next, let's say, 2 to 5 years?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Yeah, well, our vision is to be the best low-cost airline for South America. That's the main target long-term. And we say for South America, not of South America. And that's because we really think that we need to be a social service to all of our stakeholders. Not only to our customers, which are of course a priority, but also to our employees, to this, you know, the society itself. We want to, you know, help. We want to help develop cities. We want to help develop people. We want to help connect. We want to help improve opportunities for everybody in the region, you know. As I said, as I gave the example of The connectivity between Santiago and Buenos Aires, that could definitely go higher if we take the right steps. So we want to become a regional airline and we want to be, you know, a big important part of society in that area. We are starting, as you know, with Chile and with Peru. We have strong positions in both markets. We have 25% of the market. We're the second carrier In Chile. We're also a second carrier in Peru now in domestic, and we want to, of course, try to connect the rest of the region from those 2 main bases. But after that, you know, who knows? You know, we have the XLRs coming in in late 2023, and we hope that that aircraft can help us further develop our vision. Not only connecting more routes and airports, but also giving passengers the opportunity to really access cheap fares to multiple destinations within the region at, you know, a very convenient, of course, point-to-point network. So we want to expand. We're happy with the 2 bases we have. We Our strategy is to be strong in the domestics as well as be part of a regional, you know, network.

Peter Cerdá:I'll talk about the hubs in a second. In your case, let's talk about Chile for a few minutes here. A country that went from basically having one airline 15 years ago, then to 2 when you came into the market, it's Sky, and now we have JetSmart. Too many airlines in Chile, or it's just good healthy competition to have 3?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Well, I believe that the competition always makes you better and makes you stronger. We've learned a lot from the competition itself. The industry in Chile, it's very efficient. It's really one of the most efficient industries in countries in the aviation industry. Our cost base in general terms, It's very good. The quality of our aircraft is top-notch, you know. We came second in the— we become the second most new fleet in the world with having 100% A320neo capacity. We're now one of the most environmentally friendly airlines in the world, you know.

Peter Cerdá:Wow.

José Ignacio Dougnac:And that has been pushed by, you know, competition. Competition can always help you boost your decisions and move you and move faster. So that's— we really appreciate that. We believe that Chile, you know, could have, you know, the opportunity to have 3 airlines and 3 airlines, you know, working. And being profitable and having their own markets. So I don't think that we only need, you know, 2 airlines. We could work with 3. Peru, of course, Peru, it's different. When we came in Peru, the average age of the industry was quite high. The technology was not really what we see in Chile, and we're trying to change that. We're trying to bring in new technology. We're only flying NEOs. Since the beginning, we only flew NEOs in Peru. So we're trying to help the environment. We're trying to help our customers by having cheap fares. And we want to broaden up our network base, not only in the domestic side, but also in the international, in which, you know, In Peru, you have some alternatives, but all of them are full-service carriers. So it's hard for them to actually access new international routes at really good, cheap fares.

Peter Cerdá:You focus quite a lot on the west coast of the continent with Peru and Chile, obviously good operations into Argentina. We haven't talked about the big elephant here in the region, Brazil. And again, taking away Brazil during now because of COVID it's a market that has 3 successful airlines but no real true ULCC. Is that a market that attracts Sky Airlines for possible investment or expansion into that market, or because of the challenge— language, bureaucracies, costs— it's a market that You don't have it on your scope. Can you share a little bit about what your vision is there?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Absolutely. You know, we believe Brazil is, as you know, it's a totally different animal, as we say in Chile. You know, it's big, you need a lot of capital going in, the risk is high, and we have Been going, you know, we used to fly to Brazil from 2012 to 2015 from Santiago with really bad, bad results. You know, we decided at that point in time that we needed to cancel those flights. And once we got the NEOs back and our really different cost structure and a lot of bigger, you know, Yeah. opportunities and more volume, we could go back in. We are serving Brazil for the last 4 years from the international side. Again, I'm being really successful at it. And we want to keep doing that. We want to keep growing, serving Brazil, but only from the international side, because we believe that at least in the short term— short term being the next 3 years— We don't see us getting into domestic Brazil, at least by ourselves. You know, we don't know what's going to happen in the future, but we don't see us coming into domestic Brazil because we know that it requires a huge amount of effort, a huge amount of capital, and a big volume that you need to really be prepared to do that. So we're serving Brazil, We really believe it would be great in our network. It's really a big part of our strategy, but it's on the international side.

Peter Cerdá:I'm going to just pose one more question in terms of connectivity. A lot of your competition right now is intra-regional with the Latin carriers. What appetite does Sky Airlines have to, with the type of airplanes that you have, modern long-range airplanes from a place like Lima, a good strategic point to start looking into places like the US for future growth. And there the dynamics change because not only are you competing with your Latin airline partners, but now you're competing against the US market, both the traditional carriers, the legacies like JetBlue, and the ultra-low cost like Southwest. Is that a market that attracts Sky, is that something that has— it's in the back of your mind in terms of the EAGLE being able to get into the US and being successful?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Yeah, well, to be very, very transparent, we want to try to bring, you know, value to the society in Latin America. That's what we really want to do. We want to be the best LCC for South America. And a lot of people in South America really want to fly to the US, you know, and they want to have accessible flights. And they want to have, you know, most of them, you know, they also want to have direct flights. And they know that that's very hard to do today. So bringing in the XLR will allow us not only from Lima to access the US, but also from Santiago to have a direct flight. the U.S. And we believe there's a lot of value for our customers. There's a lot of value for Chileans, for Peruvians, for even Brazilians that could access the U.S. at a really cheap fare and with top-notch capacity and aircraft. So we are definitely looking to get access to the U.S., but not Not for becoming a US airline or being part of that, but for giving access to people in different sides of Latin America to have a really good service, simple but good, consistent, and very accessible for them to have alternatives to go to the US as well. As well as the Caribbean, you know, we We were already flying to the Caribbean, you know, until yesterday, which we decided, you know, since the restrictions, we weren't able to fly there anymore. But we want to give access to new routes, and also the US is a big part of what Latin Americans really, really need. So we're definitely trying to gain access there, and the XLR is a big part of that.

Peter Cerdá:We look forward to seeing these airplanes landing here in Miami soon. In wrapping up, José, I just want to touch about social responsibility. One, first question, and then it's 2 questions. One is from a Sky standpoint. Since the pandemic hit us, you went to a philosophy within the company of all your staff working from home. Is that going to stay permanent? Is that a new way of doing business that Your home operation, your operation is really going to be home-based and you're going to have a very small headquarters. And that's a very big shift from one, from pre to what we're living now. And then the second question on the environment. You've talked about your airplane being very environmentally friendly. You're focused on it. How much more does the industry need to do on that respect? What do we need to do from a regional perspective? And you were talking about South America, being the best low cost for South America. How can the— what does the industry need to do more with government to bring the level of social responsibility to the next level? Something that we've been somewhat lax in the past, particularly when we talk about the environment.

José Ignacio Dougnac:Yeah, well, before the pandemic, we were, you know, going through a really important transformation in terms of being much more friendly than we used to be. And that's why we forced the fleet transition. We actually managed to change 100% of the fleet and become a full neo operator in only 15 months. One of the most important things— one of the most important reasons why we wanted to do that, of course, was to also collaborate and be much more friendly than we used to be. At that point in time, we were basically generating roughly 100 grams of CO2 per passenger per flight, and today we are roughly at 60 grams per passenger per flight. So we were able to reduce 40% in terms of CO2 emissions per passenger per flight. So we're really proud of that. But we also went through a lot of other changes. You know, we changed the ground equipment for electrical equipment as well. We're trying to Introduce a lot of policies and procedures that are really much more friendly with the environment than what we used to do. But in terms of governments, as you know, if we want to go further on that, we definitely need government help. We definitely need to have access to other sources of reduced contamination, such as biofuels, for example. We don't have access to biofuels in Chile and most parts of the region, there is no access. And that access has to be efficient. You know, we cannot use biofuel if, you know, that's going to cost a huge amount of money, of additional money. You know, we need to also remain competitive. So we need to be able to have access to biofuels, but at a really reasonable cost. And that needs to be worked out with them, with the different government officials, because the investments required are quite quite big, and it's definitely long-term. And for others, just related to both of those questions, is the term— is the home office, you know, policy. With the home office, you have a lot less people coming into the office, a lot less traffic. It's a policy that suits very well with our stakeholder view. You know, it generates a lot of value to our people. It generates a lot of value to the environment. Actually, you know, we do— roughly 25% of the company can use this policy because, of course, people in the operation really need to be in the operation. But it's been used by everybody. You know, we are really introducing a lot of technology in order to make it work really well. And it's been really interesting results. You know, we measure this every month. how people are really feeling about this policy. 93% of the people in the company consider it's a valuable measure for them. 87% declared that it improved their quality of life in the company. 79% consider that they have been able to dedicate more time to their family and friends. In average, it saves 1 to 2 hours a day of time in just, you know, in travel time. And the NPS of this policy across the company is 62%. So it's very well received by, you know, everybody who's been a part of this. And it also helps, you know, reducing traffic and reducing emissions. So it's a policy that's been thought Based on not only one stakeholder, but also based on our strategy and long-term.

Peter Cerdá:That is great to see.

José Ignacio Dougnac:We still have, you know, office space because, you know, the policy is not home office, the policy is 100% flexibility. So you have access to the office, but the office is at the team's service. It's not required. It's part of the tools that the teams have in order to do their job the most efficient way they can and considering our strategy.

Peter Cerdá:It's great to see, José, that not only are you thinking about your staff, your team members, and their livelihoods, how they can be closer to their families and maximize their time at work. and also take into consideration the environment, which is a huge challenge that we have facing us globally, but something that we really need to focus much more on a regional standpoint. We could talk for hours about all the stuff that Sky Airlines, what you're doing. I do want to end with one note, a personal note from you. Unfortunately, as you said, the day you were named and you came into the job, that's when the first case of COVID hit Chile. Not a lot of people know about José. So I'm going to end on a personal note. Something that you want to share that the audience does not know about you so they can know a little bit more about you, particularly when they get to know you in person in the future. So a little bit, what's one thing that not a lot of people know about you that you'd like to share?

José Ignacio Dougnac:Well, I try to be Quite transparent when I meet people. I talk to the company every month, to the whole company, and try to bring a personal note to it. I'm, you know, 37 years old. I have a wife, I have 2 young boys, and, you know, within this time since I started my career, I lived in different countries, 3 different continents in the past 10 years. I've been in government and I've been in In the private side. I've been in mining, I've been in aviation, I've been in healthcare, different industries, mostly living in, you know, big cities. But today, you know, with all this, we've been really seeing the value of trying to deal with the crisis At the same point of time in which you need to be able to really focus on what's important and try to balance life, you know, the crisis, it's long and you need to be able to have a way to clear your mind. We do a lot of sports, we try to mix family with sports. Here we tried, We go running together. I go running with my wife and my 2 young boys, you know, 6 and 5 years old, and we go running together. I use that time to think, but I also use that time to spend time with my family. So I'm not that interesting, Peter, but I like doing sports and I like to use that time to clear my mind and to think about how I can better serve our customers and our people and all of our stakeholders.

Peter Cerdá:You and I tend to agree on many things. I will disagree that you're not an interesting person. You are a very interesting person. You're, like I said at the beginning, one of our young up-and-coming leaders in the region in a great airline like Sky, and the collaboration that we've had as an industry working together, it's going to continue. So first of all, I want to thank you for the time, for having the opportunity to talk with us today, and much success. And, and let's get the region up and going and, and expanding air travel and helping, uh, as you say, our citizens in South America. Thanks very much for your time today.

José Ignacio Dougnac:Thank you, Peter. Thank you for having me. And, you know, very good seeing you.

Peter Cerdá:Thank you, likewise.

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