Regional Snapshot: leisure-focused Caribbean reliant on arrivals and visitor spend

Transcript

Lori Ranson:So thank you all for being here, and we're in the homestretch, and it's a good discussion topic to end with. We're going to talk about the Caribbean today, and we're delighted to have you all here on stage. We have Director of Tourism for Cayman Islands Department of Tourism, Department of Tourism, Rosa Viola Harris; Silver Airways CEO, Steve Rossum; Senior Consultant at Route Developers, Juan Nadal; Caribbean Airlines Acting CCO, Herbert Ghent; and ALTA Executive Director, Jose Ricardo Botelho. Thank you. So I'd like to start off and get your various perspectives of where you see the recovery in the region, in the Caribbean? How do you see it progressing? What stage are we at? Rosa?

Rosa Viola Harris:Thank you so much. Good afternoon. Good afternoon? Still morning. Good morning, everyone. Cayman Islands was one of the last Caribbean countries to reopen in November of last year. So we're somewhat late to the party, but what I've observed in the region is that The destinations that were able to reduce the restrictions for entry into their countries are doing exceedingly well. We experienced a general election last year, so we had a change in political leadership, which gave us a few ripples in, in the time that we got back to the market. But I believe that there is a tremendous demand for persons to explore the Caribbean. We get calls all the time, and COVID's still a real thing in that it's disruptive to travel. So you might get COVID and you can't get on a plane. But the, the less the restrictions that a country has in place, the better they're poised to recover. That's been a challenge for the Cayman Islands because we're very small. We're a country of 70,000 people, and the health protocols have been a lot. For us, it's very much a phased approach. We hope by the end of this year, we'll be in a better position for the upcoming winter season.

Lori Ranson:Steve, what about you from Silver's perspective?

Steve Rossum:From Silver's perspective, we are super excited about the Caribbean and the prospects and the opportunities going forward. We see in 2022 we're back to 2019 levels and beyond. Really, for those that are U.S.-certificated air carriers, the biggest constraint we have in terms of our growth is really pilots at this point and other skilled aviation professionals. What we're seeing is pretty much anything we're flying in the Caribbean right now— and for those of you who don't know Silver, we fly to 8 Caribbean destinations in, in the region.

Lori Ranson:Wow.

Steve Rossum:Flying Saabs and ATRs, and we'll have a full ATR fleet by the end of the year. It's really having the resources because pretty much everything is being— is full right now. Wherever we put an airplane and, and, and sell it in a market that we're used to flying, there are people who want to be here. Rosa had a really good point about the virus being, you know, very, very contingent. The smaller jurisdictions don't have the health resources And they're very, very nervous about, um, you know, a change in whether it's COVID or any other thing that may come along. And, you know, that things could change on a dime. But all of the international destinations that we're flying to, the domestic destination into the U.S. Virgin Islands, are, are doing great. Um, we're super excited about the Caribbean. We see it as a wonderful opportunity for growth. Um, you know, we think there is an opportunity for the air carriers to work together more efficiently. There's tremendous inefficiencies, you know, within the aisles of the Caribbean, you know, and we think that there's an opportunity even for consolidation there or at least better cooperation. So from our perspective, we're optimistic. We're growing and both on the passenger and cargo side. I think you'll see Silver looking at cargo in the Caribbean in the near future. We're looking at ATR 72 combis for the Caribbean later this year or shortly thereafter. So nothing but excitement and optimism for us.

Lori Ranson:Thank you. And, and Juan, from the route perspective?

Juan Nadal:I think so. I work primarily with Aerostar and San Juan Airport, helping them out with, with the air service development efforts. And San Juan has really led the recovery in the Caribbean. I was just looking at the numbers where So far, 8 or 9% ahead of 2019 levels, which is very, very significant considering what's going on in the rest of the region and in the U.S. in general. So I'd say we're leading the recovery really in the Americas. If you look at the percentage, the U.S. Virgin Islands also did pretty well, but of course it's a much smaller aviation market. So So San Juan is there. The 2 main regional airports, Aguadilla and Ponce, are also getting a lot of air service. So we're excited to lead that recovery. And as San Juan grows, it's going to be much better, especially for the Eastern Caribbean. So those markets that, for example, Silver serves, a lot of that traffic goes through SJU. So the more lift we get from the U.S., the better for the rest of the Eastern and Southern Caribbean. So I'd say as far as the COVID recovery goes, the government here was very aggressive with the vaccination campaign. And once that— they were comfortable with that, we really opened the doors to tourism. And so I think we have a great story. Puerto Rico has been very, very, very resilient in the past 5 or 6 years. We faced Zika, Hurricane Irma, Maria. We had the earthquakes in early 2020, and we thought that would— that would— we thought we were going to— we were recovering quite quickly from that blip in demand in early 2020, and then COVID hit. So yeah, we face it all, and we— but we feel optimistic that the market, our market, is resilient. And now, like, our next phase is really Getting back the capacity, intra-Caribbean capacity, working on some international markets, and, you know, excited to lead the recovery in the Caribbean, of course.

Lori Ranson:And Herbert, what about Caribbean? Are you back to 2019 levels or inching to—

Herbert Ghent:Would agree with Steve. It's a good time for the Caribbean right now. Earlier in the year, first quarter was very— demand was extremely uneven. Because there was a lot still to be sorted out. You know, the different island governments had their different protocols and so on. But recently, yes, demand is back up to 2019 levels. We're getting requests from various island governments. They want to see frequency and capacity of what we had in 2019. Our challenges are like With Steve just said, with crew, you know, there's difficulty and challenges right now meeting the demand because of crew constraints. And also there are some airport constraints as well, different opening and closing times depending upon the territory that you're operating into. So there are still some challenges to be ironed out, but we're optimistic.

Lori Ranson:Jose?

Jose Ricardo Botelho:Yeah, thank you very much to be here. Great pleasure to be here again. No, actually, the way that you see is that the recoveries have been doing— the airlines and also the entire sector is doing very well in the Caribbean region. And we feel that we are responsible for that as association as well. It's very important because yesterday you said that we don't have roads and the only The only way to connect this region is with you guys. And this is very, very important to keep in mind. Why? Because our sector is responsible for about 15% of the GDP in the region. In some countries, each direct job is responsible for even 18 jobs. Can you imagine that?

Lori Ranson:Wow.

Jose Ricardo Botelho:I mean, the potential that we have is very good. That's why since the first beginning in ALTA, we started a program called the Caribbean Region Program. And the idea is to put together, because I don't know if you know, guys, but sometimes you are flying for the region, but you have the French Caribbean, English Caribbean, Spanish Caribbean.

Herbert Ghent:Mm-hmm.

Jose Ricardo Botelho:And even if you talk about the countries in the continent that they are facing for this region, They say, yeah, we are the continental region. I mean, it's— we have to put this— you remember yesterday, the 3D puzzle all together?

Steve Rossum:Yeah.

Jose Ricardo Botelho:And the way that we see, and we have a proof, is that this region responds very well. And respond— why respond very well? There is a book that I really, really like, it's called Sapiens, and they say we are by nature explorers. And now more than ever, the people want to be connected with the nature, with everything that we have in this region, the history, the the nature that we have here. So the idea is to bring these people and restart the process in the region. The only thing that I we are a little bit concerned. But this is something that we have to deal with, is the change with governments also, and also the civil authorities. Because we have— and also that's the reason we have an agenda with them in order to bring the concept of not just about openness that we needed, lift the health, the protocols that they are in place, because they are in place already, and you have the full vaccination, but also because we have some rules, some taxes that actually doesn't make sense for the region. If they lift that, we can increase much, much more the, the potential of this region. And this is the way that, uh, we have been working, uh, in the region. I truly believe that there is a huge potential for tourism. And something that you have to keep in perspective, for the first time ever in our history, we had 5 generations living together. So we have the boomers, the new boomers, millennials, X, and whatever. But if you count 1980, we're talking about the millennium Alpha, X, and Z. All those people, you know what they wanted? Be with nature, do tourism. And the best way to do that? With a backpack. Where's the airline that brings the backpack where I can go just with my backpack because you have a special price for that? The LCC. Where's the region? The Caribbean, the Latin American Caribbean, but especially the Caribbean region. I truly believe in that, and we have been working a lot with that.

Lori Ranson:I, I know that North American airlines during the pandemic redeployed a lot of capacity to the region, and you all sound very optimistic. You know, you've reached your pre-pandemic levels. For Steve and Herbert, are you concerned that there's any overcapacity in the region at the moment?

Herbert Ghent:Okay, I can go.

Lori Ranson:You go first.

Steve Rossum:You can start.

Herbert Ghent:Not so much, because I think it's more of a temporary issue. I mean, when you look at Asia, Asia has been— they're doing the zero-case policy, and their tourism product is right now, it's not what it was before. So I would imagine the, the long-haul carriers, they are deploying— while they are deploying capacity into the Caribbean now, market equilibrium will eventually reach. They will divert capacity elsewhere as other markets begin to open up. So if anything, it might be a temporary issue.

Lori Ranson:And Steve, I know your operating profile is a little different, but how do you How do you see capacity evolving in the region?

Steve Rossum:I think there's room for expanded capacity in the region. I think high-quality operators who have reliable service, safe operations and reliability, IOSA certification, and something— and it's obviously a little more unique to Silver— is the codeshare relationship. With American, United, Delta, JetBlue, Copa, Avianca, and others, and all the interline relationships. With all of those commercial relationships and all the people who want to move around, I, I, I, and, and particularly in the U.S., I think there's still a reluctance for Europe and Asia in terms of travel. I think people want to travel relatively close to home where they feel comfortable and familiar. And whether it's, you know, the sophistication of the healthcare systems in the Americas, whether it's just being, you know, you're only on a flight for an hour and a half or otherwise. So I think there is a wonderful opportunity. There are a lot of smaller carriers, you know, not like Caribbean or InterCaribbean or Silver or others that probably need to go away that are, And I think Jose Ricardo mentioned something really— the taxes are a major disincentive in terms of developing new markets.

Lori Ranson:Yes.

Steve Rossum:Okay. We've looked at a number of markets, and particularly as we're going to an ATR, we see a lot of market development, particularly in the Southern Caribbean. But the, you know, regulations, the economic protectionism of having, you know, the government-owned airline being protected and the taxes that are imposed upon others is a major disincentive to economic development. And I think Jose Ricardo and Herbert were spot on in terms of how much growth this provides in terms of the Caribbean.

Rosa Viola Harris:A lot.

Steve Rossum:The economic development of tourism, the development of good cargo products within— which will bring forth Not only jobs and tourism, but manufacturing and otherwise. We see tremendous opportunity. We think there's room for, you know, for more capacity. I think it's a good time. A lot of turboprops in the region, although the market for turboprops is still relatively soft, and the ability to acquire, you know, high-quality airplanes at reasonable costs that fit into your fleet. So I think it's a good opportunity for us.

Lori Ranson:Thank you.

Steve Rossum:May I?

Jose Ricardo Botelho:Yes, Jose. I'd like to add something that Steve said. This is amazing that when you can work with this focus in bringing people, bringing people, and I'll give you an example. In this island, in the region, last year we did in Punta Cana the ALTA CCMA MRO. Was completely sold out. Sold out. Everything that you bring for this region is sold out. Sometimes what, what is the problem is to get there. We need to increase the numbers of our lines, flights, whatever. The best way to do that, we have been talking with governments and try— because what is happening in many islands when you go there, for example, for the airlines You can just buy the Jet A1. Only 4 countries in the entire world is mandatory Jet A1. I mean, I'm in the Caribbean region, 40, 45 degrees Celsius, and I have to buy a fuel like I'm gonna fly for the Antarctica. What's the point of that? So we have been trying to make the government, hey, If you change it to allow the Jet A, for example, the cost is going to be better and you have more competitiveness for the cost. And I'm just talking about fuel. When you talk about taxation of the airlines, we try to say to them, hey, don't tax the airline because they are the door for interest in the country. And this is— yesterday I said, Tell me one place in the world where the airlines are and you don't have development. There is no place in the world, because where this sector is, you have development. So we're trying to say, hey, don't do that. Decrease that. And if you want to tax something, tax something else, but not put this in the interest.

Steve Rossum:Why?

Jose Ricardo Botelho:Because if I go for a place What I see first, the ticket. If the ticket is high, I'm not going there. But if the ticket, the price is a fair price, I go for the place and I'm going to spend days and days and then I'm going to do everything there. So this is a— we're trying to bring not the— this is not a concept at all. This is the industry. This is the association fight because we have to fight for the industry. No.

Steve Rossum:Yeah.

Jose Ricardo Botelho:This is— we have a benchmark. So the idea is to bring for those governments, hey, don't be afraid of that. This is not a political issue. Actually, you are going to develop the industry in your country, especially what is the reason in the Caribbean is the tourism sector. So this is—

Lori Ranson:And just to go back to tourism, Because a lot of countries in the region had to pivot their tourism strategy during the pandemic, and I know that Cayman Islands had to do some of that as well. So just tell us what you had to do to sort of stay afloat, because I know that cruise ships left, they're coming back, but yeah, just to ensure that this strategy was still in place.

Rosa Viola Harris:I'm sure we can all talk about our journey over the last 2 years. But the initial onset of the pandemic, our advertising went dark. We just didn't know, you know, what we were dealing with. I told a story just last week to a group that 2 weeks before we closed our borders, I was given the instruction to call the major hotels on island and say, how do you feel about closing for 30 days? Well, 21 months later is when we reopened our borders. So we really didn't know what we were dealing with. So our Department of Tourism had to pivot. We started a stipend program that supported tourism employees who were displaced, and we currently still support them because our recovery— because of the application to come into Cayman and the testing regime still being in place for entry, of course, our return and recovery is a bit slower. And that's by design with our new political leadership. We also turned to a lot of workforce training and development. We saw a lot of attrition. You know, some other industries got some really great employees during the time. And we also focused our efforts on, you know, what could we do now to ensure that we were ready. So I spoke with you last night on the bus ride back to the hotel that there were so many Zoom calls about, you know, protocols and entry requirements. And this was for both aviation and for cruise in my role. But I think the one core fabric for everyone was We wanted to get back to our business. We wanted planes to fly. We wanted people to travel. And, you know, with travel being such an economic accelerator, it's exceedingly important for us. The one differentiator for the Cayman Islands is that our tourism product is only 25% of our GDP.

Lori Ranson:Wow.

Rosa Viola Harris:We have financial services. We have real estate. There's other industries that kept us going during the lockdown, and we, we were able to be in a position to be very conservative and make some choices that other destinations, you know, had to make a faster decision to reopen their borders. But we're progressing very nicely. Our government gave us a target of 40% recovery. We're at 45% by the end of Q3 will have 85% of air seat capacity that we saw in 2019. So with the return of air service, we really do believe that we're poised for a nice recovery going into the summer-fall period.

Lori Ranson:And I want to touch on some of the requirements for entry in various countries because I know that a lot of restrictions are being lifted, but do you think Do you think industry needs to come together to push for some sort of uniformity across the region so tourism could grow even further and passenger confusion could be eased?

Steve Rossum:Me?

Jose Ricardo Botelho:Yes.

Steve Rossum:Okay, sure. I'll take the mic. Absolutely. Passenger confusion has been a major problem for our guests, our customers. Even jurisdictions changing requirements same day for, for people who are already in the Bahamas or already in the Caribbean or otherwise. And it's a major disincentive in terms of, of, of what's going on. People can adapt, okay? And people want to move around.

Juan Nadal:Mm-hmm.

Steve Rossum:It's obvious that you started seeing the recovery of, of as the, the vaccine came out and And people became optimistic and encouraging and they've been— have this, all this pent-up demand. But, you know, even, even I, we have, you know, we travel to a number of international jurisdictions. I'm like, well, what's it in Tortola? Do I need this coming in and what do I need coming out? And frankly, in the US, the requirement for the COVID test coming back into the US 24 hours in advance is a major problem.

Lori Ranson:Yeah.

Steve Rossum:Okay, for the airlines. Okay, it is a significant governor on recovery and growth for U.S. air carriers. And because frankly, if you're in— if you decide you want to go to Dominica, one of our jurisdictions, okay, where we fly, do you know— you don't necessarily know, well, where can I get a test the day before? And if you have to spend hours researching or working with your hotel or figuring out what's going to happen or what kind of medical facilities there are going to be, okay, you're not going to go. You're going to go somewhere else. Or you're going to go domestically. So the— there are groups like ALTA, the airline associations, and otherwise really need to work with the Department of State and the CDC in the U.S. and recognize one of the things that it's, it's, um, an anomaly. And one of my colleagues at Silver, um, she flew to Canada for the weekend, okay? And then she realized, well, I got to get a COVID test before I come back in the U.S. But instead, all she did was drive back across the border and flew out of Buffalo. No COVID test because you were driving. That makes sense.

Jose Ricardo Botelho:Yes.

Steve Rossum:Okay. And airplanes are obviously You know, cleaner than cars. But yes, there needs to be uniformity. There needs to be clarity. There needs to be— everybody needs to speak with one voice. And this, you know, sort of 24-hour COVID test in all circumstances that the US has, not if you've been fully vaccinated, not if you've been in, you know, certain other jurisdictions that have very, very low rates of infection or otherwise. So I think it's— I think it's a concern.

Lori Ranson:So So it sounds like you're saying that, you know, demand would be even greater if that testing requirement was not in place.

Steve Rossum:It would be greater. And, and, and, and frankly, um, you know, like folks on my right and left, it would be easier for them to, to work and, and, and with the airlines if they knew, you know, what, what they were able to, to offer. Okay, people don't want to invest capital, people don't want to invest resources, okay, on a, on a I don't know, okay? Because right now, I mean, You know, whether it's Spirit or Frontier or Silver, I can throw another flight to North Carolina and fill it up, okay? So, you know, in terms of the allocation of resources, particularly crews in the US, do you want to invest and make that development until you have greater certainty? I mean, we have a list, I'm sure a lot of the other carriers here do, of a number of places that we want to expand to, but you're waiting for, you know, some things to kind of settle out a little bit.

Lori Ranson:Juan, have you seen an uptick in service because there's no testing requirement from the U.S.? Do you have more carriers that are interested in expanding to San Juan?

Juan Nadal:Yeah, I think the fact that there's no testing requirement to go back into the U.S. has definitely helped us. We've seen some of these smaller destinations like, like the BVI has had very, very complex protocols and they've changed it several times and it has really killed them in the past few months because you see the rest of the Caribbean ramping up. We have a lot of interest from US carriers. To be honest, we would have more capacity, of course, if the pilots were available, right? So everyone last year was throwing capacity at Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, and it is the same case this summer. We still— we're still ahead of 2019, of pre-COVID levels, but that growth is going to— it's going to be slower than the pace that we've seen before. I think, yeah, the fact that you can go back to the States without a test is a big— it actually helps us a lot. We did have a testing requirement coming into Puerto Rico for a while, and you had to fill out a form. But I think particularly for the U.S. residents, they were confident that they were not going to get stuck in Puerto Rico. And I'd say that was a big boost. And also places like Mexico, Dominican Republic. I don't think Mexico ever imposed anything. DR did a very good vaccination campaign and they reopened and they've seen the results. I think going back for a second on the, on the other issue aside from COVID as Jose mentioned, the taxes and the fees. San Juan or Puerto Rico to Dominican Republic is one of the top 5 intra-Caribbean markets. It should be 30 or 40% bigger than what it is because of the insane amount of taxes and fees, particularly on the other side of the, of the Mona Channel. I wish all the best to all of these, all of the startups in the Dominican Republic. We're really excited about that. It makes sense for them to use SDQ and Punta Cana as connecting hubs. But taxes and fees are a big issue, are a big issue. It's people— someone that goes from Puerto Rico to the Dominican Republic pays a third or more of their ticket in taxes and fees. And that's just— it kills the demand. It's cheaper to go from Puerto Rico to Cancun than to go from San Juan to Punta Cana. And you You can imagine that there's a very negative effect for both countries, for Puerto Rico and the DR.

Lori Ranson:I do want to touch on the taxation issue again because it's been hovering in the Caribbean for quite a while. I guess the question is, do you see governments understanding when you communicate with them that if taxation was ease, you know, this is the economic benefit of that and here's how traffic can grow. But tell me, do you see any movement in that area or is it just a slow-moving process to try and convince them?

Jose Ricardo Botelho:Me? I can take it. No, actually what we see is that we try to bring the benchmark, what was done in in many other countries, especially when you have, for example, if you go to the south, you're going to have the Mercosur. We have some standard there. If you go to the north, you have the NAFTA. If you go for Latin America, you're going to see the SICA, and was supposed to have a special kind of tax order. But what we see when you go for the government is that, okay, how can— it's more than— it's not technical, it's a political issue. It's like, how can I say to my people that I'm going to decrease this taxation? What you try to bring to them, we try to bring some studies, say, hey, actually, you are losing nothing. Actually, you are increasing because we have more people, you have more flights, and the people are spending tourism, spending many other things. When you show that and you give for them some some comfort, you know, in order to act, we see that they say, "Hey, come and bring them that, and let's try to do something together." We are going to start a program now. Probably we're going to start with Guatemala. And also in July, we're going to start a 10-day round trip around the Caribbean islands with the airlines, with everyone in the government, in order to say, hey, look what was done. For example, I'll give you an example in Brazil. If you have the taxation, what you guys call the VAT or the IVA in Spanish, they call ICMS. If you fly from one state to another, the tax of ICMS, the IVA, was 25%. 25%. It's a lot. So we went for the government and said, hey, why not? Let's do it this way. If you have international flights and you have a codeshare with a national flight, this carrier is going to pay nothing because it's going to be like the, you know, the part of the international flights. And let's do this way, let's do a test for 2 years. You know what happens? In one city called Fortaleza, I don't know if you guys know about that. Fortaleza, they had about 13 international flights per week, per day. Now is more than 54. Which means?

Herbert Ghent:More jobs.

Jose Ricardo Botelho:more infrastructure, more everything. And what is good about that for the States in this case was that we did with them, we gave to them the idea, hey, if I come for international flight, let us stay here for 3, 4 days. So you can go there, you spend your time there with your family, and then you just fly for another place. That works, and we try to bring this for the Caribbean. And that's what you're doing. Region with the same concept and say, hey, you have not excuse, but you have how to explain for the people that that was done here. So every time and every day we are trying to, to, to, to bring some concepts for the, the Caribbean region. But again, the, the is not a problem, but the challenge here is because we have to talk Just one voice. Just one voice. Because the 3G puzzle is tough. As I said, put together the French Caribbean, the English Caribbean, the Spanish Caribbean, and what's worse is feeling this as a professional, as a human being, because we have everything for the development. Just take a look. You are close of the one of the biggest market in the world, USA. The GDP in the world is about what? Eight seven trillion dollars. Twenty four percent of the GDP, this GDP is in USA. You are close of the hub of Americas, Panama. You are close of the South America with Brazil. Brazil with more than 2 million people. You have nature, you have history, you have everything. You have good food, you have culture. And as I said, what the people are looking for nowadays, especially after— do you remember the carpe diem? When you say, hey, I need some space, I need some time to stay with my family in the— with nature? The X, Z, millennium, All of them, they are looking for places like this region. So this is the right moment. And Steve said something, what do people want to do? Stay off, stay outside. This is what we call the tourism of revenge. I don't know where I'm going to be, but in my house I don't want to be anymore. I want to go for someplace. If you offer that, and we can do that together, we can do that. It's not easy, but can be done. I think that's a great point. No, this is life. We are here for work together.

Lori Ranson:We are coming up on our time limit, but I want to see if there are any audience questions before we wrap it up.

Juan Nadal:Hello. Hello. Hello.

Lori Ranson:Yes.

Juan Nadal:Good morning, good afternoon, or whatever. A question for the director of ALTA. He was just mentioning about the Caribbean, and ALTA is doing a fantastic job, and it seems like ALTA could be leading this integration in the Caribbean. Besides taxation, will you expand? Will you be the leading instrument in the Caribbean? Will you be willing to do that to get this development that's so much needed in the region?

Jose Ricardo Botelho:Yes, thank you. I truly believe in that. I think that COVID was example of that. We used to say, hey, this is the private sector, this is the government sector. But when COVID came and we saw the darkness on that, what ICAO did— ICAO called the industry, ICAO called the governments. We went together and we did something that was supposed to work. That was the the CART. What was the CART? The CART was a document made with the industry and the government and say, hey, listen, the protocols since the first beginning of your trip is going to be this. That was amazing. Probably you guys have heard about that. But what happened? When this came to— This is a big deal. Went to the country, the authority was not with the civil authority anymore. It was with the health authority. And so sorry, but they didn't have a clue about our business. And that's why you have in our region so many shutdowns, so many, you know, bizarre decisions about the COVID But actually the protocol, if the countries would have accepted since the first beginning because it was not made by the industry. It was made with ICAO. And when I talk about ICAO, I'm talking about representatives from the governments in Montreal to decide the things. So it was a very, very powerful document, but unfortunately didn't work very well because of that. But by the ALTA perspective, we truly believe, and that's why we have such some meetings just with the Caribbean region and also during the Leaders Forum where the government is, where everyone is, we try to bring the Caribbean region all together to try to build something. And this is the way that we do. But thank you for your question. I don't know if I answered.

Steve Rossum:Thank you.

Lori Ranson:We are out of time. Thank you all so much. This has been a great discussion.

Jose Ricardo Botelho:Thank you, Lori.

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