MRO capacity, planning and its implications for the industry

Transcript

Troy Jonas:Thank you all.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:I figured maybe set the stage a little bit. We could talk about some of the MRO trends we're seeing in the Americas region. Troy, as the third-party MRO provider, I think maybe you're the best one to start with here. You know, what are you seeing? How have things changed since the pandemic? You know, where are we right now with the MRO industry?

Troy Jonas:Well, the demand for MRO across the board, whether it's airframe, landing gear, components, or engines is quite robust the world over. We're heavily focused on North America. On the airframe, from the airframe perspective, and we provide a lot of the capacity in North America. We have about 55 to 60 lines of heavy maintenance ongoing at any— on any given day. So it— we're a substantial player.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Okay.

Troy Jonas:It's quite difficult to find a slot these days. I think you would probably— Peter and I were just talking, there could be some signs of some loosening here and there, but most operators would probably have a hard time finding a slot in North America in the next 12 months. It's that tight.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Okay.

Troy Jonas:That's quite different from prior to 2008. COVID and what we were accustomed to. It changed the dynamic not only for us, but also for the operators. And when I say that, they're planning for capacity, not maintenance programs, because every 121 operator has a robust maintenance program and maintenance planning. But when you're looking at Planning for maintenance capacity, the— our customers are starting to take a much longer look and a much longer planning horizon when they're looking out. And when I say that, it's multiple years. And in several cases recently, we've had customers that have locked in our capacity for 7, 8, or even more years.

Tim Wellensiek:Okay.

Troy Jonas:And again, that is quite a departure from pre-COVID when 12 months would've been a long timeframe. So it has changed the behavior for everyone. It's not— the constraints are not restricted to airframe. We saw it with— we have a landing gear shop as well.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Yeah.

Troy Jonas:And interestingly, with landing gear, virtually everybody stopped doing overhauls during COVID It just came to a screeching halt. And then everybody, big surprise, everybody came back all at once. And the supply chain just couldn't keep up with it. And we're still working through that backlog and bow wave of landing gear. And then engines are particularly acute. And I think you probably have a later question on engines, so I'll stop there for now.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Sure. Peter, from the airline perspective, what are you seeing in terms of maintenance trends?

Peter Schumann:Yeah, I totally agree. I would say even post-COVID, a couple of years ago when I joined at Sun Country, we could probably book out capacity for next year or 9 months into the future. Since that time, no, it's really tightened up. And some of your tier 1 suppliers, suppliers that you want to send your aircraft to, everybody wants to send their aircraft to. So what my team has ended up doing is working into multi-year agreements with some of our Tier 1 vendors. My team's also planning out our heavy maintenance visits all the way into the 2030s now, getting just as far ahead of it as we possibly can, keeping the dialogue open with, you know, our MRO partners here and the whole community just to make sure that when it comes due, these aircraft have a home and nobody's going to be left out in the Absolutely.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:So, I mean, speaking of maintenance capacity, I know one of the things we discussed a little bit was particularly in North America, you know, that being so tight that people were offshoring some of their maintenance to Latin America, to other areas. Maybe before we get fully into that, Rob, in terms of like maintenance capacity, are we seeing new developments at the airports here in Canada? What kind of demand are we seeing here specifically? Yeah, absolutely.

Rob Bachart:Airports, generally speaking, are very reactive in nature. They're propositioned with tenants that come to them with a need, and the airports tend to scramble to put together orders, to assemble land, in order to provide a facility for the operation.

Tim Wellensiek:The—

Rob Bachart:Airports now are starting to evolve in terms of the sophistication. The management is changing over, philosophies are changing, and airports are becoming more proactive in planning, planning not only the land in terms of MROs, but it's retail nodes, various disciplines.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Yeah.

Rob Bachart:So, by being more proactive, they can not just wait until, in this case, an MRO comes knocking, they can be more proactive in the marketplace and start garnering the business. The one caveat I'll place to that is sometimes, however, the agencies and the governments associated with these airports, or in the same area of these airports, aren't directly aligned, and they need to be brought up to speed a little more quickly. So it's again in the sophistication of the airports to provide that knowledge more proactively.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Thank you. Peter, I know one of the things we were talking about right before we got on stage regarding the offshoring thing, you noticed that slots might be starting to actually free up a little bit in the US, and You think some of that work is going to continue, if it's going to go anywhere, to go south. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Peter Schumann:Right. So I think kind of what Troy was saying and what I touched on briefly, you know, in the last couple of years, all of us narrow-body operators, we can't, you know, take our aircraft and send them over to Xiamen or to Hong Kong to get work done. So we're really constrained to getting all of our heavy maintenance done in North America. And we booked up everything that there was to book up, right? We had an incredibly huge crush of demand coming out as aircraft were getting reactivated back into the networks. They were coming due with D-checks that, of course, those were the first aircraft to be parked in the desert come COVID because they're the most expensive to maintain. And then lo and behold, when they get brought outta the desert 2 years later, they're full of corrosion, they become hangar queens, and then that just eats it up all right there. I think we're starting, or at least me as the customer from the calls I've been receiving, I'm starting to see some of that loosen up. Some people are calling to say, hey, we have more capacity than last time you came asking for it. Do you have anything available? You know, I'd like to discuss further. What I've noticed about that, though, is that it's usually in the United States that I'm seeing that. And I think anecdotally, from my opinion, I think what could be causing that is, you know, in North America— I'm sorry, what? Especially for us nearshoring in Latin America, they kind of have done such an excellent job down there in their MRO capabilities, their pipeline, their labor streams, everything like that, that now when cuts are starting to be made, the relief valves are starting to open up a little bit further. The airlines, and I could probably say myself included here, we're gonna kind of scale down in the United States before we scale down in Gotcha.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:So you mentioned labor. One of the things that is really very much impacting the capacity, as I think you guys are both aware, is workforce. There's a huge workforce shortage in MRO. Boeing releases their annual pilot and technician outlook, and I believe their latest projections were that by the next decade, the entire world is gonna need around 700,000 new technicians. Don't quote me on this 'cause I haven't looked at it in a minute, but I think around 125,000 of those are supposed be needed here in North America. So obviously that's impacting a lot of these maintenance providers and probably causing some of those capacity constraints. Troy, could you talk a little bit about that at AAR and what you're seeing there?

Troy Jonas:Sure. So, so yeah, we, we hadn't really talked about the causes of the constraint other than Peter talking about the bow wave coming out of COVID But the fundamental constraint is labor.

Tim Wellensiek:Mm-hmm.

Troy Jonas:Today it's labor and real estate, labor and hangars. But hangars are relatively easy. The labor is not. So it's fundamentally a labor challenge. And it's probably not going to fix itself anytime soon. One of the things that— All of us in the industry and the operators would have seen is labor rates went up fairly substantially over the last 3 to 4 years. And those labor rates, those increases in labor rates go directly to mechanics, to direct wages. We weren't paying our technicians enough. On top of that, you've got the airlines that just keep one-upping each other with labor contracts for mechanics. And then, you know, they— it's just, it's the way it is. They poach from us.

Rob Bachart:Mm-hmm.

Troy Jonas:And so we as an industry, and we at AAR in particular, substantially increased wages over the last few years, north of 25%, 30%. So that's number one. But once you do that and you slow down the attrition, You know, people are making a good living working for you, and they're happy, you've got to go recruit new people. And so we cast a wide net all over the place with outreach and recruiting. So we go to the traditional places. We sponsor the A&P and aviation technician schools. We offer scholarships, internships. And we offer these students a direct path into AAR right out of school. That's one, and we've been doing that forever, but there's not enough kids coming out of school. We also recruit for aviation technicians that are soon to leave the armed services. That's a great avenue for us.

Tim Wellensiek:Mm-hmm.

Troy Jonas:And then we do significant outreach, not just to get people interested in AAR, but outreach to get people interested in aviation in general. We started in the high schools and have been doing it for many years. We've recently been going into the middle schools and trying to garner that interest. Yes, we need airplane mechanics. But aviation needs pilots, and everyone needs labor. So just by increasing the interest and visibility on careers in aviation is important to us, and we do a lot of it. And then lastly, specifically for aviation technicians in the US and in Canada, we have facilities in the US and Canada. There are special visas available for skilled labor, including airplane technicians. And we've had significant success over the last year and a half, 2 years, of recruiting from Latin America, some Eastern European countries, and kind of scattered all over the world. But the— there's a talent-rich workforce in Latin America. And in Canada. Many of whom want to come to Canada or the United States, and they get a path to a work permit and ultimately citizenship. And so that's been very, very successful for us recently.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Peter, in terms of the workforce issue, what are you experiencing at Sun Country?

Peter Schumann:Yeah, I mean, I would, I would agree with Troy. He obviously lives it more day to day than I do. I'd say from the customer perspective, What we're really seeing and what keeps me up at night is kind of the experience level of the technicians coming back, right? As we hire more kids coming out of school, coming out of the armed services, usually what we're seeing now is they're fresh out of school. They just— their tickets, the ink is still wet on them. And where I'm concerned is in the high skill set, labor pools of sheet metal repair, avionics technicians, you know, that workforce is getting older and older. There's a shelf life to those guys. And, you know, to pass that knowledge on to a younger workforce that is getting thrown right on a heavy check or even in some cases line maintenance, you know, there's— you got to give them time for that. But time is kind of against us here. And that's That's worrisome to me. And I guess where I see it bubble up is we try to do, for our heavy checks, all of the initial inspections, all the corrosion, every— the issues that's going to decide if the airplane comes out of maintenance on time or not. We try to get that done within 25% of the overall check visit span. And what we're routinely finding is that, you know, they're going to be— there's going to be late fines, 50%, 75%.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Yeah.

Peter Schumann:Even up to days before the aircraft can release, which pushes its delivery date out. And, you know, again—

Troy Jonas:Yeah.

Peter Schumann:It begs the question of, is that something that could have been caught earlier? Would an experienced technician who's got 10 or 20 years under his belt known to go to those areas on day 1 with a flashlight and just kind of check around versus, you know, following my maintenance manual to the letter and then waiting for it to bubble up that way? And that's just kind of the thing that we're up against now.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:So Tim, from the software perspective, I think you might have some interesting thoughts about how some of these capacity issues, some of these workforce shortage issues could be solved utilizing digital technology. Could you talk about that a little bit?

Tim Wellensiek:Yeah, I mean, many things come to my thought when I listen to my panel colleagues here, and one of them is, of course, also in the operations field. Operations control area, we have a challenge to find new talent. So it seems like a kind of universal problem. And what we're describing here is a challenge that sounds like will not go away anytime soon, right? It will only continue, maybe get a little less, maybe get a little more. And what I have experienced in my many years I'm doing this type of business for all my life, is that there is actually quite an organizational separation between the MRO and the operation. And if I can kind of back out for a minute, for those of you that are not working in the operations area or dealing with the day-of operation, essentially what we do is the commercial team is planning the schedule on what they want to fly, fly based on the aircraft available and of course considering some of the, you know, heavy maintenance constraints. And we take that into the system and basically assign the actual aircraft, the actual crew, everything that goes along with to fly the schedule. So if your profession is as an operations controller, you want to fly the schedule. Right, we want to get passengers from A to B, and the maintenance part of it comes as a kind of a pre-assignment. So if you think about this from left to right, here comes the schedule, and then far out you have certain aircraft going on maintenance, but they also go on maintenance on an unplanned basis or overnight checks. And we today already integrate with the major MRO systems. We can take that data, but it is a fairly static kind of integration and collaboration. And with the many customers that I visit, I hear often that, you know, I need my system to be exactly the same as it has been the last 10, 15 years. I cannot influence what's done on the MRO side because that's a totally different kind of pillar of the organization. And so there's not, in my view, much optimization happening between the two. And my question more to the audience and to all the experts and leaders here in the room is like, is this something that from a software perspective we should invest in, right? Should we look into it and see if we can find a better utilization of the resources we have? And I can give a little example for from one of my customers out of the Middle East. They say maintenance impact is by far the biggest disruption. We don't have snowstorms, we don't have these type of huge weather phenomena here. We have fog once in a while, but that's it. But maintenance is the big thing, and the unpredictability of some of these maintenance events makes it worse. Like if you, if you have an aircraft coming in, it's plan to maybe have a layover of 3 hours, then go out to another destination, then the aircraft goes on maintenance on AOG, and then the repair window given, it says, oh, I think I need 3 hours, 4 hours. Well, sometimes it's after an hour it's done, and sometimes it takes longer, and that's where, you know, there's a lot of inefficiencies in it. And so for me, it is more a question also to the audience, maybe we'll get some in our text on what can be done there, and then to both of you, obviously, what you think about that, how your collaboration is with the operations people.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Sure. Well, does anybody in the audience have a burning desire to chime in with their thoughts on that before we go to the panelists? No?

Peter Schumann:Okay.

Rob Bachart:Can I just add to— from an airport standpoint, you know, this is awesome. This is the recon that My team and I do in looking at various sectors and how we are building out those businesses, that industry on our lands. Right, we have a finite resource as an airport operator. We have roughly about 1,000 acres that we've developed. We have another 900 available, but in listening to this, it's how we create, how we cluster certain businesses together, but also how we don't limit our ability to increase the capacities of the state universities of the world that's on our campus. So, we allow them the ability to grow, and in turn, we'll spin off more jobs right into the sector. Secondly, too, it's advocating. So, we do a lot of advocating. with governments, with universities, with other agencies on behalf of the industry. So, you know, in understanding this, this is the pre-work, this is the proactive nature that we need to take on as an airport operator so we can build out the proper programming on our campus.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Do either of you gentlemen want to respond in terms of how digital technology might be able to be leveraged better?

Troy Jonas:Well, yeah, I've got a comment, and it may be closer to Peter's expertise than mine, but line maintenance. So the airplane's overnight somewhere.

Rob Bachart:Yeah.

Troy Jonas:Every night. And that's the opportunity to go and do some of the things that I think you're talking about. If we had better predictive programs or predictive maintenance programs that could tell us, You know, your flap actuator's probably going to fail in the next month or 2 months. Yeah, schedule the flap actuator to be changed on an overnight. Yeah, there's definitely opportunity, I think. Again, I'm more from the heavy maintenance environment where, you know, you fix everything. But there are things, yes, you would wanna target. If we could predict failures much more accurately than we, than we do today.

Peter Schumann:Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think fundamentally facts and data will set you free. And to your point, Tim, about, you know, the operating system being able to meet you there, a good example is an engine change, right? An engine change, best-in-class operators can do an engine change on a 737 in an overnight shift. The issue that we face at Sun Country is, you know, we fly an older fleet of 737s. When you drop the engine, you can find thrust reverser heat shield blankets that are torn or in a condition that you do not— you know, they're not airworthy. So an overnight engine change visit can quickly turn into a day down, 4 days down in some cases. And if you get unlucky and your engine change is on a Wednesday night, 4 days down from a Wednesday night, you just take an aircraft out of service for your busy weekend rush.

Rob Bachart:Mm-hmm.

Peter Schumann:And for a low-cost carrier like us, that can be quite crippling depending on the season. And so, yes, operating systems that can tell us, you have a probability of a finding on this component as a secondary finding by doing this action. Could be in this threshold that you define as at risk to ensure that that material is on hand. If the material is not on hand, you know, what is our restocking strategy? Does that need to be tailored? You know, where have we sourced on an AOG basis before? Who can deliver it the quickest? You know, I could just, from my supply chain background here, I could take this all the way down to the fabrics that make up that blanket, right? But I'll leave it there. I think there's a lot of potential that can be unlocked and I think, like the panelists earlier today were saying, we all know that we need— there's a ton of possibilities with data, and we're not deploying them as fast as we all want to.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:So, Peter, I actually do want to get a little bit into supply chain. I think some people might not realize how much these delays with parts are causing longer turnaround times for maintenance and causing huge headaches on the MRO side. Could any of you maybe speak a little bit about what you're seeing Yeah, I mean, I can go first.

Peter Schumann:So I'd say, you know, as a 737NG operator, they're not building them anymore. When we have unique failures that are of occurrence of an aging airframe, you know, think 15 to 20-year-old airframe, it's getting harder and harder to get that support from Boeing. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great point. directly. And so what we ended up finding ourselves having to do is do a lot of fabrication with our MROs, which thankfully, again, shout out to my Tier 1 suppliers, have been a godsend in being able to do that and turn that around. But other than that, some components with their availability, and even to the OEMs, plenums on heat exchangers is a good example. We're all going into summer.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Yeah.

Peter Schumann:Older 737s can get quite hot. Their air conditioning systems are starting to age and break down. And not only can we not get the off units back from the repair shop in time to meet the MRO forecast while also trying to support the line when we've got pilots that are refusing airplanes because the cabin's too hot, everything like that, but the OEMs can't keep up with the demand that us and every other Major carrier in the United States that's flying NGs need. And so a lot of that, what we're doing is we're doing, you know, we're being very novel in in-situ cleaning, troubleshooting. We're very fortunate that we only fly the 737, so we just have that single type. That has not only made our technicians incredibly successful experts in their field, but our stores.

Troy Jonas:Mm-hmm.

Peter Schumann:Our excellent stores and material folks have a tremendous knowledge of the 737, and they can help give some feedback of, you know, instead of the entire assembly, you know, maybe try down to this subcomponent, and maybe that can get us by and everything like that. So that's been helpful. I don't know, Troy, if you have anything further on that.

Troy Jonas:Yeah, so I said the airframe constraints are fundamentally Labor, and it's true, but it doesn't mean that the supply chain doesn't affect the process because it does significantly. It does drive TATs, turnaround times. So, and kind of across the board for heavy maintenance, I'll— it's a generalization, but turnaround times for the same event, the same heavy maintenance event, have have extended post-COVID over pre-COVID, largely because of the supply chain challenges. And in particular, Airbus. In North America, there's a shortage of Airbus materials that drive Airbus heavy maintenance checks. And, but again, it's not the— that's not the fundamental constraint that ties up all the slots. On the engine side, it's a different story. The engine side, again, it's multifaceted constraints that are affecting engines, but the engine MRO is tighter than the airframe MRO space right now. And that's fundamentally driven by a shortage of OEM material, OEM spares. So you get the engine into the— into the overhaul process, and you find these parts that need to be replaced, and the OEMs can't supply it. The problem is so acute that the operators and even the engine shops are reluctant to put an engine into the shop and start tearing it down until you have a good line of sight on the material that you're probably gonna need. And so again, from an operator standpoint, It changes their planning process. What we see the operators doing now is going out months in advance for the engine overhaul events that— or repair events that they want to put into a shop. And they're going out and procuring the material. And then they pair up the material they're probably going to need with the engine, and then they collectively, with the engine shop, agree to put it in. And if you have all those parts, you can probably get a A 120-day cycle time for an overhaul. If you don't, it'll go in and get tied up in the shop and sit there for months and just gum up the works worse.

Rob Bachart:That's right.

Troy Jonas:And so a corollary to that shortage of OEM spares is that the operators are much, much more willing to go the route of used serviceable material. So there are multiple companies out there that are purchasing engines, tearing the engines down, and keeping and selling the used serviceable material that can be used in the overhaul process. And so engines are also affected by labor shortage and just tight capacity in the shops, but that supply chain Well, I want to make sure we get to some of these audience questions.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:We have some good ones coming in here. This first one about technology, I could probably talk your ear off about it, but I'm not going to. Are MROs considering implementing advanced technology to assist with the labor force shortage, such as dent mapping drones? I've also heard of companies using things like AI and whatever else for that. What are you guys seeing in that area, or what are you using? I know— Well, I think that's a great question. AAR is using some technology.

Troy Jonas:Yeah, I don't want to dominate all the time, but we have an entire group of folks focused on technology, from paperless, the paperless, our paperless hangar, to yes, drones, dent mapping from a robot that attaches to the side of the airplane. Yes, we're investing many millions of dollars in Peter?

Peter Schumann:I would agree. We've had some MROs that have asked us to run pilots on drones. So far, it's been nothing than a fly around the hangar. But yeah, I think the future is there. There's obviously a big business need for it. For me, I guess it just— it's all about what does it do to my overall spans on delivering an aircraft on time? And then, you know, obviously there's a cost element to it, but I'm sure Troy, as they're developing it, is going to make sure that the customers benefit from this technology. It's not just all going to be one-sided for him to invoice me higher.

Tim Wellensiek:Sorry, can you elaborate a little bit on the mapping of the drones? Is that for taking spare parts to it or like diagnosing the—

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Taking—

Peter Schumann:diagnosing. Dent mapping wings. Anything, you know, aircraft could have subsequently had a hail damage event years ago that the dents are so small that you wouldn't notice without laser precision.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Well, you know, as companies start to go more paperless or start to implement more of these digital technologies, I think that ties in with this question about cybersecurity. And Tim, I might throw this one to you just because you work on the software side. How have your approaches to cybersecurity How has cybersecurity evolved in recent years, and are your airline customers requiring any heightened measures to safeguard data?

Tim Wellensiek:Yeah, they definitely do. I mean, the trend of the last years was in moving into cloud technology and taking the security that the major cloud providers can offer versus a home-run data center. In some cases at CAE, We're also using the experience and the obligations we have from the military side. We also have a big military division that requires even tighter security. So we apply that to it. But I can say it is definitely in the forefront of every airline how we protect the systems that we host for them against the cybersecurity. So that's an ongoing effort and will never stop. Thank you.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Did anybody else want to chime in on cybersecurity?

Rob Bachart:Just from an airport standpoint, I mean, it's again about planning, making sure that the right infrastructure is in the right area, because no one sees that stuff that's buried under the ground, or sometimes above head. At an airport, it's mostly buried under the ground, but their main focus is the end source, so it's important.

Troy Jonas:So I agree with everything that Tim said, and we do access our customers' systems. Depending on the customer, you know, it might be a little bit, it might be a lot, it might be multiple systems. And yes, we have to be very diligent, and we are, to protect their data and to protect our data. And I think that's a very important point.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Good to go?

Peter Schumann:Yeah, I think my Chief Information Officer would be the better person to ask that.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Wonderful. Well, let's try to get to this last question here. How does a localized maintenance repair ecosystem support and spur passenger and freight aviation growth? We haven't talked about freight. I don't know, Rob, could you maybe talk a little bit about that one? Is there freighter activity happening here in Calgary, or? In Winnipeg, where you were previously?

Peter Schumann:Freighter activity?

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Oh yeah, there is, like, freight aviation growth.

Rob Bachart:Yeah, am I the best suited to answer this question? I mean, it is all about the global ecosystem on our lands and how, you know, the MROs are intertwined in both passenger aviation as well as cargo aviation, keeping these It's expensive pieces of machinery up in the air and operational, especially in the life and times we live now where Boeing's going through their challenges and it could be argued that it's cyclical, Airbus could be next, but regardless, it's important that these operators keep their equipment operational and other equipment operational as well. So, So yeah, it does. It not only touches passenger aircraft, but it touches cargo aircraft.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Did anybody else want to take that question or no?

Peter Schumann:I think I perceive the question a little bit differently. Kind of like a localized repair, you know, I think about it as in a line maintenance environment, something that could lead to, you know, you needing to send the part out for repair or you need to purchase a new material. Obviously, I, as the maintenance planning guy, would prefer in-house capabilities. You've got to be careful there because you can increase costs substantially on the back end of overhead costs by doing that. But at the same time, we have an example now where we're doing some— we've got a rudder shroud or rudder pedal shroud, basically, that we're going to be doing in-house.

Tim Wellensiek:Okay.

Peter Schumann:The rudder pedals that the pilots are using, there's a shroud that's starting to pull out of its bracketing. And for us to actually take the sheet metal, and our engineers have come up with a spec to fabricate the pieces that we need in-house, and we can get those done in a day or 2 of downtime during the week versus sourcing that from—

Rob Bachart:China.

Peter Schumann:Boeing as a kit or another venue, it's going to save us— for our fleet size, it's going to save us hundreds of thousands of dollars in the end. So there's absolutely an appetite to that. I think you just need to approach it with caution and just make sure that you're not building capabilities just for the sake of building capabilities.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Well, if we can make it quick, because I think we're over time.

Troy Jonas:I agree. I agree with Peter and Rob.

Tim Wellensiek:Yeah. Cool.

Troy Jonas:Wonderful.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:Well, thank you, gentlemen, so much for your insights. Could we give them a round of applause?

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