Attracting Top Talent to Aviation's Transformation Challenge

Transcript

Michael Bell:Welcome to my favorite subject. This is the people side of things, right? I mean, how can you have a great airline industry without excellent people who are engaged, motivated, aligned with the direction that the business is going? So first, thanks to Damian for his Great talk around NDC, obviously important subject that is coming of age. But today's topic is really about attracting and retaining top talent to the industry. We have a fabulous panel assembled from around the world, I should say. So to your far right, Ellie Tomlins, Chief People Officer from easyJet. Hello, Ellie, who's relatively new to the industry. How long has it been?

Elly Tomlins:Just over a year.

Elizabeth Bryant:Yeah.

Elly Tomlins:So I've been learning aviation cold. I've done 5 different industries and I spent the last year learning the different languages that exist in all the different tribes.

Michael Bell:We're going to keep you in this one.

Elly Tomlins:Yeah, yeah, that's what they say, you never leave.

Michael Bell:Next to her, Elizabeth Bryant, Chief People Officer at Southwest Airlines, who actually came from IBM, other places, but has been around for quite a number of years in industry, right, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth Bryant:I can attest that you will never leave once you get a flavor of the airline industry. It is certainly addictive.

Michael Bell:How many years?

Elizabeth Bryant:26 years.

Michael Bell:Incredible.

Elizabeth Bryant:13 different positions. Southwest in 26 years.

Michael Bell:Yeah, terrific. Next to her, Dr. Nadia Bastaki, who is the Chief People, Government, and Corporate Affairs Officer at Etihad, an airline that is delivering great results of late and who has a very interesting background actually out of the medical field as a medical doctor as well. So how many years in the airlines now?

Nadia Bastaki:18 years in the airlines. Started as an aeromedical examiner and then ended up doing HR and now government and other things. So Airline, as I said, is dynamic and you go to places and it's amazing. It glues you in.

Michael Bell:Terrific.

Alexander Blenk:Welcome.

Michael Bell:And then we have Mohammed Matar, who is also brand new to the industry and is now the Chief People Officer at Gulf Air Group, overseeing both the airline, which is primarily focused today, but also Bahrain Airport. And he recently joined the industry from the banking sector, right? How long has it been for yourself?

Mohamed Matar:It's been 11 months.

Michael Bell:11 months. Okay. So similar to Ellie, we'll be looking for your views.

Elly Tomlins:First person I've met at this conference that's less than me. So that's cool.

Michael Bell:You guys are both still in the 1-year probationary period in the industry, right? So we also— and I think it was a great idea on CAPA's part to ask a student to join the panel. So Alexander Blank joins us here. He's a student here in Berlin. Studying master's in aviation engineering, aviation management while working at Bombardier. So Alex, how long have you been involved in the aviation sector?

Alexander Blenk:So yeah, for Bombardier, it's now round about a year. It's in the MRO section, so not for the—

Michael Bell:yeah.

Alexander Blenk:And afterwards, or beforehand, I was with Eurowings as a flight attendant during my bachelor's time and I've been there 1.5 years. Of course, beforehand, I was always driven for the aviation industry, and now I'm doing my master's degree.

Michael Bell:Hopefully you'll still want to stay with it after this panel here today.

Nadia Bastaki:Of course, I hope so.

Michael Bell:Well, we're delighted to have the perspective of the students here as well. We gave you all a small homework assignment in our prep, which was the concept of an employee value proposition, which, you know, to summarise it quickly, we all know about a customer value proposition, the shareholder value proposition, but companies need to have a strong employee value proposition, which is defined at its core as the gives and gets of employment. What do you get for being there and what do you give in return for getting those gets? A little bit less for you, Alex, but we'll come back to get your perspective on the other issues. For the others, and we'll start with you, Ellie, what is the employee value proposition at easyJet?

Elly Tomlins:It's a very timely question for me because when I joined, I looked at what we were saying and some of the EVP statements that we had. I didn't love them. They were a bit bland. They weren't deep enough. And what they didn't do for me was reflect the raw honesty of what the experience is. And that's incredibly important when you're shaping these things. So we've literally just finished the— we started a project at the end of last year to do the research. We researched 150 people. We did a whole series of groups with crew. We talked to the people in the different parts of the business to understand what it was that they loved about working here and what the pain points were and to really articulate it in a new way. And so we haven't finalised it yet. So ironically, I'm talking about it on a panel before I've taken it to my executive team. But let me— the gives and gets that we have talked about that have come through incredibly strongly, what we ask of people in these jobs and in the industry is quite profound. So you have to be up for pace. You have to be up for variety. The work is challenging. It is not easy. And we make a hero in easyJet of saying easy isn't easy, meaning to make things easy for our customers is going to be really hard work. So we want to put that kind of expectation out there that you're going to work hard and it's going to be demanding. You're going to be dealing with 250,000 passengers every day. You're going to be dealing with the human impact of your decisions because everything you touch will be material. There's a lot of materiality in it. What you get, though, is the dynamism and the energy that we've already spoken about. We call it orange spirit. It's hilarious. Like once a week, someone will say to me, you cut me, I bleed orange. There's a kind of like emotional attachment and intensity to people.

Nadia Bastaki:And it—

Elly Tomlins:we describe that as the sort of the warmth, the humor, and the energy of doing hard work well and getting through something difficult together. And that is something we've worked really hard on since COVID in terms to sort of instill and encourage and, and celebrate within our culture. And you also get the sort of the impact, the meaningful work and the impact of what you do. And so they were, they were showing me the various taglines that they were describing, and my favorite one was If it was easy, it wouldn't be nearly as fun. And the reason I really like that, and, you know, we've yet to actually draft everything around it and see whether it will end up as the final one, but it really chimed with the conversation I had that got me into this job. So a year ago, I was looking at 2 FTSE 100 CPO jobs, really different industries. The wonderful thing about HR is you can hop between industries. And I talked to one of my predecessors, a lady called Ella Bennett, who did the job for 5 years, and I said, tell me what this gig is really like. And she said to me, you know what, Ellie?

Elizabeth Bryant:Yeah.

Elly Tomlins:This will be the most fun you ever have at work, and it will probably be the most stressful job you ever do.

Michael Bell:And both have lived up to that.

Elly Tomlins:Both have been quite true, but in a good way, because, you know, the raw honesty of that was helpful. I knew how— what I was facing. I knew what I was walking into. And it's the variety and the pace and the sheer volume of things that come at you is huge. And you have to be real with people, particularly, I think, if you're bringing them in from another industry, because airlines is a thing. It's a very, very different gig, but it's addictive. when you're in it. You have to be up for the cortisol ride.

Michael Bell:That's wonderful, Ali. I'm going to turn to the next relative newcomer to the industry, Mohammed. What is the maybe developing employee value proposition at Gulf Air?

Mohamed Matar:Thank you. It's a great pleasure to be with this panel at this conference. Employee value proposition, like you've said, has, or value proposition has different layers, shareholders, customers, and people. But at Gulf Air, we prioritise people. We give people an opportunity to be part of something that could be elevated. Gulf Air, a premium connector in the Arabian Gulf that was established 76 years ago, has the pride of the nation. It is the only company, or one of the only national companies that the whole country relates to, as it's the only airline in the country. Since we are a small island, and the best way to get out and into the island is by air, Gulf Air really has a special part and Bahrainis. When we talk about employee value proposition, we have to make people believe it before hearing it. We have to give before we ask for trust, and we make people the heart of our people transformation journey.

Michael Bell:You're undergoing a transformation, and this is a chance for people to be part of that at an iconic company in Bahrain.

Mohamed Matar:Exactly. We are not limiting the talent attraction to experts or expertise from the industry only. I came from the banking and finance. Our CFO came from a very senior executive role in oil and gas from Saudi Arabia. Out of the 9 executives we have at Gulf Air, 6 are new and 5 of us came from different sectors. from completely different sectors and industries.

Michael Bell:Well, the EVP seems to be working to attract people so far, right?

Mohamed Matar:So far, yes. So far, yes. All right.

Michael Bell:Well, hold that thought. Let's come back to that. Elizabeth, you've been in this industry for decades now. You know, Southwest has gone from like go-go growth to transformation. But what's the EVP at Southwest and how has it changed maybe since you got there?

Elizabeth Bryant:Yeah, well, great question. And thank you so much for having me today. You know, so if you know Southwest Airlines, you know that we have a true And we've been around since 1971. We fly all 737s, primarily US carrier, and we have always had the model, it's employee and then customer and then shareholder. And so with that model comes employee at the center of every decision-making process that we make. When we make a decision that will potentially impact the workforce, we think about it through the lens of that employee. And so I think that's a really important thing to think about. And there are really 3 things that employees look for when they come to Southwest. We don't have to do much marketing. We do have a very strong employer brand, so we tend to have more applications than we can fill. We used to say it's harder to get into Southwest Airlines than it is to get into Harvard, because we are very selective in what we and who we bring on board. And there are 3 things that we look for, and this is really what the promise is back to the employee as well. You know, one, you're going to have fun. We call that fun-loving attitude, but you're going to work hard, and we call that warrior spirit. And there's a servant's heart at Southwest, and you can expect that you will be treated with kindness, with respect, with a caring attitude, because that ultimately is what you are expected to share with every single external Southwest Airlines customer. And so there is a promise, if you will, when employees come into Southwest Airlines that they will be treated fairly, and kindly. Above and beyond that, there's a sense of Southwest Airlines is not just a career, but it's a cause. Mohamed, you mentioned being part of something better. You know, it's part of being a part of a company that is there to help connect people with what's important in their lives. It is a mission that we strongly believe in, and if we have the privilege of being part of that mission, then as a Southwest Airlines leader, I have the responsibility of helping to grow your career. And so, as I mentioned, 13 positions in 26 years. I've spent time in operations, I've spent time in leadership development, in org design, in HR. So I've moved around, and Southwest Airlines creates this lattice-type environment. It's not just about a ladder and where are you going, but it's what type of experience do you— can you gain? Can you take a skill set and apply it to a new area? We tend to grow from within as much as possible, and so we always look internally. to see, do we have that skill set somewhere in the organization? And so that opportunity to learn and grow is a promise that we give our people.

Michael Bell:And I could say as a regular flyer, to your point, Mohamed, they deliver it in the cabin and they deliver it before they say it, or they do the two together. Nadia, you know, Etihad's gone through several evolutions, right? There was a period under James Hogan, you guys were making equity investments in various airlines, and there was a You got traction and now you're growing again, right? In the context of all that, how have you honed the EVP at the company today?

Nadia Bastaki:I think EVP is an evolving story. You need to align your EVP with a couple of things that are happening in the company. One is your long-term strategy of what you're delivering. Second is with your purpose, vision, and mission of the company. Third is your values that you want to bring in. and want to promote, and finally, what you want to attract. A balance of everything coming together is so important. A lot of people look at EVP as an isolation. I want to attract people, but who do you really want to attract? Because the capabilities that we wanted 10 years ago is not the capabilities that we want for the future. If you have a brand new strategy, you need to come back a bit and say, okay, What is the real capabilities that I need for the company? And how can we externally attract and internally develop? And that only happens if you have a clear purpose, vision, mission statement that is aligned to the company strategy. Like when we built our new strategy for 2035 or 2030, I would say it was all about ambition and a lot of growth. So we had to kind of align what we want from people. The purpose was giving flight to ambition, whether it was the country's ambition or the people's ambition or the passengers' ambition to fly. That built the narrative of what we want to deliver in terms of capability. We looked at our values. What did we really want to bring to it? We talked about soft values and hard values. The key was, okay, I want to be be result-driven because I can't bring those 2030 ambitious goals if I'm not result-driven. I have to be passionate of how I want to deliver it. But if I'm not united and I'm not safe, the softer values, I wouldn't be able to then create the culture that we want. Then EVP starts evolving around the hiring piece, the promotion piece, and the career lattices as they're talking about. It has to connect to the brand that you want to be. Etihad also connected all the purpose, vision, mission into the brand statement was beyond borders.

Michael Bell:It has to be united.

Nadia Bastaki:It has to be united.

Michael Bell:Which is what Etihad means in Arabic.

Nadia Bastaki:It then becomes a story that everybody can say and believe in and iterate. It's simple as that. That then attracts the right talent in and also pushes the right talent out. But it's not only words, it's about how you function in the organisation and the pictures you portray. When I first came in, I used to see one picture, great, one stereotyping female serving men in the cabin. It says a lot. That means we're only hiring female cabin crew to serve men. We have to change images and say, no, We are a diverse group of people, 140 nationalities. We're men and women serving different types of families, kids, and others. Even the images that you go out has to follow the story that you're saying. We always went out for advertising for pilots, male. We now advertise for pilots, female. It's a different way of telling the story.

Michael Bell:Modernising that.

Nadia Bastaki:Modernising that. It's very important to communicate.

Michael Bell:Hold this thought for a minute because we're going to come back. We've done a whole review of your skill sets, what you need going forward, where you want to target it. But Alexander, you're in the industry of sorts, you're new, but what is it that has drawn you to it? So let's take the EVP up a level to the industry, not the company. Why and what would cause you to believe you should continue to build your career here?

Alexander Blenk:So when I was small, I come from Frankfurt, so we have one of the biggest airports there, and I've always been driven to, yeah, to the aviation sector. When I was small, I wanted to become a pilot, but in the end, during Corona, I did my, yeah, my degree from school and I changed my mind a little bit. Came then to the Technical University of Applied Sciences in Wildau, where I'm also today. And that gave me a completely different perspective of what the aviation industry has, because for most of the time, I think when people come to the airport and maybe families as well, when they go on holidays, they see the airport, they see the planes, the airlines and the crew members, but not the bigger picture behind it. And I think I was a flight attendant for over a year. It also gave me a perspective of what it is to be a pilot, and it wasn't something for me in the end. And that's why I also continued with my master's degree. And yeah, and I would probably also, not probably, I will stay in the aviation industry, maybe also switch to airlines. And I was quite, yeah, interested also in leaving Germany to somewhere else. And for me personally, it's not that easy to get into touch or like to— when we come to the point when applying for a job, it seems for me a little bit difficult.

Michael Bell:There are a lot of potential employers in this audience.

Alexander Blenk:I don't know if that's going to be a question later on, but that like the requirements and the skills I need eventually to, yeah, bring with me.

Michael Bell:I want to pick up on something you're saying there and just put it to the broader group, which is we've talked about the EVPs. It's very interesting, by the way, see some of the similarities in the I like the idea of having a little catchphrase around it because, you know, sometimes being able to articulate that in a very succinct way can get, you know, people get it, right? They resonate with that. Okay. I mean, that's either for me or it's not. But the industry's had some challenges. I mean, I think about, you know, the high-tech sector competing with airlines for some of the same talent now around data analytics, etc. And there is this sort of a view that Oh yeah, you come to airlines to be a pilot or a mechanic, etc., but there's a lot more there. So what is it that you guys are doing to try to, at the industry level, change people's perceptions about a career in the industry? Maybe, Elizabeth, if you can talk to that one.

Elizabeth Bryant:Yeah, absolutely. So we talk a lot in our recruitment marketing that we're an airline. We just happen, you know, to have an HR department and a professional career, and we're a technology company and we're a finance company. And we are so many things. When, when people are in college or they're in high school, when we're working with some of our early pipeline groups, they, when they think about an airline, they think about a flight attendant or a pilot. They don't think about the diversity of roles and careers that come with the airline. So we do spend a lot of time educating future pipeline employees of the different types of roles they can play. at Southwest Airlines, and then what those roles could ultimately be. So we'll go to college campuses and we'll talk to employees in the business school and talk about how they can carry their degree over into the airline from a strategy perspective or a finance perspective or a project management perspective, that there really is a career for anybody in an airline. There's so much that goes on, as we all know, behind the scenes, but people don't always know that.

Michael Bell:Ellie, you guys are, you know, you're of course all over Europe, but your primary base is your head office in the London area. You've got a lot of competing employers.

Elly Tomlins:London? Luton.

Michael Bell:But I mean, the catchment area for recruiting into your corporate office, how do you guys get around this? Oh, that's an airline. And by the way, they're always, you know, not making money and Chapter 11 looming.

Elly Tomlins:Oddly, it's not an issue that I've dealt with in this job so far compared to some of the other businesses that I've had to recruit for. I actually think we, we get 150,000 applications a year for 3,000 jobs. So the bigger conversation is what do we do with the 98% of people who are potential customers that we are saying no to? Actually, that's, that's a big conversation my recruitment team have a lot with themselves. A lot. The strength of the brand is quite strong. People know easyJet, they love easyJet, they, they're often customers of easyJet, they care, they like easyJet, they warm to it. There's a warmth and strength in the brand, and that helps us enormously. We do, like, you know, Elizabeth was saying, talk, and there will be niche skills and niche roles where it's harder. In every business across 5 different industries, I've always competed for tech and data talent. That is no different. So you have to go where the work is. You often have to think about location. So we're building a tech hub in Barcelona, for example, because they don't really want to come to Luton unless we put a fancy digital office in the centre of London, which I've done a couple of times in a couple of different businesses. You're not, you're not going to get access to the right people. Equally, you know, you're going to have little— you have to get really granular about where you have crunch jobs. So we talk a lot about Gatwick. There are so many airlines in Gatwick, so B1 licensed engineers, B2 avionics engineers, really hard to find there, and we have to look at the pay scales and so on for those particular jobs. And last year, we, you know, we, we did a lot of work to map out the pilot pipeline over multiple years and actually look at if and when we do need greater volumes of direct entry captains, where are they in the world and why would they come to easyJet and what are some of the reasons they might want to come back to Europe as opposed to, you know, work in the Gulf and so on. And that, that, that we, we, we, we, there, there are areas where you have to take a much longer range view of your pipeline and start thinking about it and then recognise that things will change. You know, I'm already hearing the appetite for people to come back to Europe at the moment is suddenly very strong and so you'll, you'll, you'll take advantage of of microclimates in different ways.

Michael Bell:Mohammed, build on that a little bit. You guys are leading the company with Martin Gauss through a transformation process. Gulf Air has gone from, you know, 30 years ago being the carrier in the Gulf, 4 countries, to 1 country, you know, facing giants in Qatar and Abu Dhabi and Dubai. How are you communicating to the broader employee population in Bahrain or elsewhere that this is an industry they should come to or to a company that, you know, whose maybe existence has been challenged, right? How do you overcome that?

Mohamed Matar:Shedding light on the people transformation journey, it's split into 2 folds. One, attracting talent, but 2, investing in reskilling the existing talent. 14 months ago, And back to Elizabeth's point, I myself never realised that any major in any university has a job in an airline. You could end up—

Michael Bell:Broader definition of what the careers could be.

Mohamed Matar:Exactly. What we've done, I think on my second month, after realising the diversity of jobs and roles in the company, we partnered with all private and public schools for those who are about to graduate from high school and just before they decide on what university and what degree they want to go for. We invited them for a summer on-job training program to give them idea about the sector, the jobs, the opportunities.

Michael Bell:How was that received?

Mohamed Matar:Very well, exceptionally well. Because like you've said, I thought it's just, it's limited to pilots and cabin crew. I myself thought that, but when I joined, I discovered it's, you know, we can employ any single graduate from any—

Michael Bell:There you go. There's your answer. It doesn't matter what your skills are.

Elizabeth Bryant:I think for everyone.

Michael Bell:Maybe, Nadia, you guys have been going through, you mentioned a review of the skills for each of the jobs and maybe redefining that and light of the new airline economy. Tell us a little bit about that and what kind of skills you guys are looking for. And maybe, Alexander, it's an opportunity to see how to position yourself.

Nadia Bastaki:I think looking at the industry evolving, looking at AI and technology coming in, looking at different segments of the business, you know that the capabilities are changing. We need more people understanding data, more people understanding insight, very good storytelling in terms of visualisation, predictive analytics, and so forth. That's becoming more of a need even in specialties that didn't deal with data before, HR and so forth, because people are becoming more strategic partners to the business. The core functions are moving to more strategic partnership and guiding the business in how to evolve. The finances of the world are now using technology to pay bills and so forth. So who do we really need to kind of evolve the business more? So the capability now is designed by looking at different skill sets that we need today for the current job and the different skill set that we need for future jobs, and then look at how— what is the gap.

Michael Bell:Are you finding it challenging to find those skill sets?

Nadia Bastaki:I think some of the things, yes, we are finding challenges. Even if you look at sales roles today, sales roles are all about going to the business, relationship management, and now we're moving all our sales into digital. The more you move into the digital space, the better outcomes you make. You need different mindsets of people of conversions. You don't need the traditional salespeople who are going out for dinners and lunches and all that stuff. So a lot of transitions happening, even when I look at my HR team. It's all about they knowing the business acumen and understanding what the business needs. So I don't need someone who's doing process work. I need someone who is a strategic business leader who can become a consultant and do things differently. So all the other process-driven items are happening through AI workflow optimisation, RPAs, and so forth. Now I need people who really go into the business.

Michael Bell:Let me just pick up on that and talk about the downside of that. AI is automating, simplifying, eliminating many of these processes. How are you as major employers responding to the perceived threat within of that to your broader workforce that may not be the thinker strategist, but the doer. I mean, maybe I'll ask you guys as major employers there on that issue.

Elly Tomlins:Yeah, where to start with AI? I mean, you can't do an HR panel these days without talking about AI, it's like the topic du jour. So, I mean, I think one of the things we talk about is AI is going to augment the skills and it's going to fundamentally create capacity for cognitive thinking and space and coaching and some of the other things that actually I think this industry finds quite hard to find the capacity for. And what we are going to need to do is find out where and how the right tools will need to be augmented with the right human, right? And it's really important to have both sides of those equations. It's something we spent quite a lot of time with our AI strategy group talking about.

Elizabeth Bryant:It's—

Elly Tomlins:you can't just, you know, whack a load of tools in and expect everyone to get on with it. You need to have precision tools, you know. So Claude is much better for spreadsheet work and finance than Microsoft Copilot. You need to be thoughtful about which teams we need which types of enablement. And then the really interesting talent question that I think is going to come at us quite soon is, who are the domain experts who will help you in the relative— the automation of key workflows? Because actually, there's quite a lot of, I would say, manual work still happening to get an operation of the scale and complexity to happen. And there will be places where automating will create— Say, well, You need to step through it in the right way, but it will be actually really helpful to, and will enable you to create much safer and faster work. But you have to do it in the right way, and therefore you need to be really cognisant of who the people are that really understand the work, who know the processes, who know the workflow, and therefore can be— and you need to equip them to create the agents, and then work out, and this is gonna be the really hard bit, and you start— I'm starting to see org charts that have agent and human on. That's what was the first in the last couple few months. But you need to then say, okay, when the regulation changes around that agent, who's the person that's going to know how that work is going to change? And how do you make sure you've still got that person in 20 years, or a version of how to create that person in 20 years, who will stay on top of the regulation? Because you won't be able to augment or automate everything. And so it is a complicated transformation that is going to be really, really significant in the next few years.

Michael Bell:Sounds like you're thinking about it, though, very consciously.

Elly Tomlins:We're doing bits in very key areas. We've got lots of big— you know, there's lots of big areas where we've done a lot more tooling in some areas.

Michael Bell:How about yourself, Elizabeth? Southwest has a large, traditional, long-term, long-tenured employees, right? How are they perceiving this opportunity, threat, or whatever you call it?

Elizabeth Bryant:Well, I certainly think there are some nerves associated with it. So we're talking a lot about what AI means for us. Southwest, and I certainly agree. We see this as an enablement tool. We're not talking about AI as a replacement. We're talking about it as a way to help employees do their jobs better, to free up capacity for some of that thought leadership and that strategy. It's about reducing the friction that our customers experience and then internally how our employees experience. So how can we use these tools to better deliver service to both customers and employees. Longer term, you know, we look at the employee has changed, right? So you look at what the full-time employee looked like 5 years ago, and it's a very different scenario today. So when we're looking at work, we look at it through a number of different levers. It is, is it a job that has to happen with an FTE? If so, So if it's a high-touch role, if it's a strategic role that needs to have a full-time employee in it, then that's what we employ. Is it a position that we can offshore? If it is an analytical position or a capability that makes sense with offshoring, we do that. Is it an outsourcing? Is it something that we need to look at if there are moments when there's peak, you know, capacity that we just need to be able to—

Nadia Bastaki:Yeah.

Elizabeth Bryant:to staff up for that, then we're going to look at augmentation. So there are a number of different levers, and AI is just one of those that we're looking at. And so that's— we're talking about the entire employee experience when we talk to employees about this, and we're inviting them along for the journey. So when we're trying to problem solve something, it's on the table with them. That's right.

Michael Bell:It's not coming at them, if you will.

Elizabeth Bryant:Yes.

Michael Bell:Alexander, I mean, you've heard some of this. What is your perspective on how you're trying to position yourself in this sort of new skill set and maybe AI being a part of that, a part of the skill set. In your generation, are you consciously thinking about that and how you position yourself?

Alexander Blenk:Yeah. So AI is a thing that is used, I think, everywhere right now. And we have to also— my generation has to, of course, adapt to it and also get more in touch with it. And I think the Gen Z thing is also a problem which probably the airlines also feel like with the work-life balance and the environmental views of the Gen Z, and of course the modern technology coming with AI as well. You have these 2 groups in the end, the Gen Z who really want to work maybe just 35, 30 hours, and then you have the other group who want to do more and also go into the AI and technology.

Michael Bell:You mentioned you're technically in Gen Z, but you don't belong to that group. in the office, right?

Alexander Blenk:So, okay. Not always, but not always. I want to do at least my 40 hours because I'm still young. I have the energy.

Michael Bell:I don't learn.

Alexander Blenk:I want to learn. I want to—

Michael Bell:yeah. How does Gen Z marry with easy isn't easy?

Elly Tomlins:I mean, I think, I think, I think it's— there's an awful lot of generational research out there, and a lot of it I actually think has probably overstated the complexity.

Michael Bell:Simplified.

Elly Tomlins:Absolutely. Gen Z is a huge population, and they're It's very easy to like write off a whole generation and say, oh, they're, you know, they're only interested in avocado toast. Actually, that was Gen Y. But like, you know, I think it is grossly oversimplified. I actually think cultural and domestic norms make enormous difference in how— so the average Gen Z in the US will be completely different to the average Gen Z in a lot of these Asian countries. And so I actually take quite a lot of the generational research with a little bit of a pinch of salt because I think you'll find an awful lot of Gen Zs that want to work incredibly hard and who, who'll absolutely—

Michael Bell:Segmentation thing. Who in that generation do we want to attract for what we—

Elly Tomlins:Absolutely.

Michael Bell:Yeah, I want to take one of the questions that came here, which is, you know, inevitable. We're going to at some point touch about labor relations. Airlines are notorious for work conflicts, strikes. Don't you think this may be a bottleneck for require— recruiting young talent? We had Max Kowniecki on stage. He's been in his job less than 90 days and he's had Right. So who wants to take that one on? You're a very unionized workforce at Southwest, right?

Elizabeth Bryant:Yes, we've got 10 unions at Southwest Airlines. About 93% of our employee base is unionized. So certainly have experienced here— experience here. You know, I would say that fundamentally we have focused on the relationship and open dialogue with our unions. That has historically helped In moments of negotiation, and it's it's a give and take, right? So we are one of the highest paid in the industry, and we're proud to be the highest paid. In return for that, we expect high productivity. So that's how we come to the table when we have these conversations. Fortunately, a strike is not something that we've had to manage through. We've been able to manage through all negotiations, and it. You know, through that give and take.

Michael Bell:Recently struck some industry-leading agreements, right?

Elizabeth Bryant:We did. Yes. And surprisingly, they're opening again next year. So we'll have some more conversations. Yeah. Coming up.

Michael Bell:You know, when we were prepping for this, I was— little did I know that, you know, there were unions at Gulf Air. Right. I mean, you would think that in the Gulf that's not the case. But tell us a little bit about labor relations. We don't hear about strikes in the Gulf, but I guess, is that a realistic scenario for you guys.

Mohamed Matar:It is a realistic scenario. We don't, alhamdulillah, no strikes, fortunately, like Elizabeth, but we have 6 unions at Gulf Air Group, 2 at the airport and 4 at the airline. When I joined, on my first, second day, I met with each head of the 6 unions, and I've told them, whatever have happened in the past, whatever You know, court, you have won against the company. That's the past. We are going to be partnering in whatever you demand. And I'll ensure that HR is the first touchpoint for our employees for the union. They took that with a pinch of salt, but I think it worked.

Michael Bell:Similar to build a relationship with the company, right?

Mohamed Matar:Yeah, it worked. We came to a few agreements like Elizabeth that are going to reopen in 1 or 2 years, but we are managing them through a partnership approach.

Michael Bell:We're drawn to a close. I want to pull it all together with asking you guys, you know, when I started in executive search, I was asked to do work in asset management and financial services. I'm like, okay, it's very lucrative. They make a lot of money. Our fees are tied to the compensation of the positions we place. Somehow I found myself in aviation, which they don't make a lot of money, but it's a passion and I'm still here 30 years later. Is that a part of this? Is this a business you can have passion about? I'm going to start with you, Ellie.

Elly Tomlins:Someone asked me the other day, what makes you thrive at easyJet? My answer was, you have to be all in. You can't be on the fence. You have to get in the mix and be all in. You have to genuinely love it. It's not okay to be ambivalent in this industry.

Michael Bell:How about yourself, Mohammed? You're new. Have you drunk our Kool-Aid yet? No, I think it's orange spirit, by the way.

Elly Tomlins:It's called orange spirit. Well, for me it is.

Michael Bell:It's called orange spirit.

Elly Tomlins:It's orange, you know, I need to be blue because it's—

Mohamed Matar:Yeah, it gets into you. It gets into you. You know, I love it. The reason why I moved to this sector is, you know, banking, we move money. Here, we are responsible for—

Michael Bell:It's slow and it's boring, right? How about you, ladies? You've been in the business a little longer. Presumably passion what brought you here, but presumably what's kept you here. Why have you—

Nadia Bastaki:It's the day that you wake up every day and find the dynamic culture. A lot of people, 140 different nationalities, globalization, whether you are in the UAE or across, meeting colleagues in these conferences, you know each other. It becomes a A bigger family.

Michael Bell:Sorority or fraternity.

Nadia Bastaki:So you say hi to people that you know in aviation. The excitement of the new route launches, connecting people, celebrating cultures, whatever that is, that brings a lot of different dimensions. Also, coming to work every day, it's different because you are working on something, but you get different challenges. We didn't wake up in February thinking that we'd have this crisis. We didn't wake up someday to have COVID. That rush of adrenaline that gives you this dopamine rush every time, it's very difficult to find in different industries. If you have the passion for aviation, like I learned PPL, I did HR, I went into government, I learned about the business, the network, how it's managed, it's all because of this passion that you get, that energy.

Mohamed Matar:I can feel it from you guys.

Michael Bell:Elizabeth, you still have that warrior spirit after this?

Elizabeth Bryant:Still have that warrior spirit? Yes, I mean, it is certainly addicting, and it is an industry that if you love to problem solve and you don't shy away from an issue, this is certainly you know, for you. And that's what I tell, you know, our pipeline of candidates all the time, that it's something once you get a taste of, you won't want to leave. And then the unique culture that Southwest Airlines has is one that just pulls you in, helps you feel seen, helps you feel a sense of belonging. And in that environment, I think people can live up to their best.

Michael Bell:Yeah, that's fabulous. All right, Alexandra, I'm going to give you the final word, right? So you have already have made the decision to be part of it. Do you feel more excited having listened to these great people, leaders talk about their, their passion and drive for the business?

Alexander Blenk:Yes, of course. And I thought about some things like my university where I'm studying, they try to get in the airlines to us to show them where we are able to work in the end. And I wanted to like bring this point up that because now I know you do it already, and also like to the schools, which I think is also very important to get these people at a very young age. They know the aviation industry to some extent from traveling with their parents on a holiday or something. But as I already said before, and it's a much bigger picture behind it, it's like a small city where you have everything together, like every university degree. In the end, you need people from finance, you need people from HR, you need the pilots and security staff. So in the end, the airline, of course, and the aviation industry brings everything together. And it's like a city where I don't want— where I want to live and which I don't want to leave.

Michael Bell:Well, you're welcome. I'm going to wrap it with a 2-second story about— we were doing a search many, many moons ago for the CEO of Delta Airlines, and one of their board directors was Richard Anderson, who is a notoriously successful executive, perhaps among the most so in the US. And the board wanted him to take the job as CEO. He was working for UnitedHealthcare, the largest health management company running one of their businesses. And he ultimately said no. He said, looked at it and go, lifestyle, money, like, why do I want to do this? So he turned it down. So like 11 in the morning, went into a meeting with actuaries for the rest of the afternoon. And by the end of the day, he was on board. It is a great business and one that keeps you here. And then he went on to great things for the company and for the industry. So with that, I ask you to join me in thanking this terrific panel for coming all the way from various places in the globe to share their thoughts with us today.

Elizabeth Bryant:Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you.

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