As NDC Becomes A Reality, How Do Airlines Avoid The Kodak Moment?

Transcript

Eliseo Llamazares:I think it's important to know the different points of view of the different players. For example, the first question is about the risk and the benefits that the NDC has for the industry. It's different, the point of view, if you are talking in the point of view of the airline, if you are talking in the point of view of the OTAs, In the point of view of the developers. And I think it's important to know what is the— this point of view of each of the parts of this business. We can start with Silvia about this point.

Silvia Mosquera:Okay, well, good afternoon to everybody. Thank you for being here at the last panel of the day, but last but not least, I hope so, a booming Women panel. So NDC, and Hugh, of course. NDC brings benefits for all the members of the value chain, I think, starting with airlines. For the airlines, it's a way to offer more personalized and more customized products to our clients, considering our clients are metasearchers and travel agents. And of course, it's a way to reduce our distribution costs because it's a concern that we have the airlines to reduce always the distribution costs and in fact to increase conversion rates in order to increase sales. If we look at the agencies, I think that NDC is about giving the agencies the same capability as airline websites. Because they will have access to the full and enriched content of the airlines. And finally, the customer. The customers are looking for a personalized, more personalized offer and also seamless booking experience. So I think that NDC brings benefits for all of us.

Eliseo Llamazares:Alicia?

Alicia Lines:Yes. Of course, maybe I'd like to start. Can everybody hear me?

Hugh Aitken:Nope.

Alicia Lines:Maybe that's good. No, they hear me now. I want to start by thanking Erika for a great presentation on NDC. It really set the scene, I mean, probably for all of us to be able to talk in layman's terms about NDC in this panel. She really highlighted the job that the organization I work for, which is IATA, Has done. It's been very difficult to bring everybody to the table and align and bring forward the NBC.

Hugh Aitken:We're probably better off just getting the hand mics. Yeah.

Alicia Lines:We have somebody else in the panel.

Elena Avila:We'd love to hear the view.

Eliseo Llamazares:Yeah.

Alicia Lines:Mystery guest.

Eliseo Llamazares:Mystery guest.

Alicia Lines:I think he's outside. In any case, moving forward, I think she highlighted very well, and I think she said something very important. In addition to the benefits that you've just described for airlines, for agents, and for the customer at the end of the day, it also brings innovation to the industry, to distribution. Distribution has been exactly the same for the last 40 years. It really has. A lot has not happened. in the airline industry. And there's a threat, and I think Tamur also made reference to this in the past panel, about the Googles, the Facebooks, and Amazons that could really come in and start distributing and selling the product that really belongs to the airlines. And that is why the airlines need to move forward with all these new technologies and really come out there and produce an offering. And to be innovative at the same time is really a new let's say, scenario for what the industry has seen in the last couple of years. So I'm very excited about what NDC is going to enable. Is it going to be easy? No. And maybe one of my colleagues will be better positioned to talk about that.

Eliseo Llamazares:Hugh?

Hugh Aitken:Yeah, absolutely. Let me know when you can start to hear me.

Eliseo Llamazares:Nope.

Hugh Aitken:Yeah, I think before I say anything, I just want to have marked that this is the first panel that you and I are in a minority of any CAPA event I've been to. So it's brilliant. I think just to make a note to CAPA that this is the first panel I've been on that there's more women than men on it, and I think that's well worth marking. And long— and may there be many more of them. And I think, yeah, just to confirm, so Skyscanner, we are a meta player, not an OTA. So our job is to consolidate and find all of the fares that OTAs and airlines directly provide, and then show that to our, you know, over 70 million, close to 80 million monthly people who come and visit our site. Now what we are doing is building what we call direct booking into Skyscanner. So that's the ability, particularly on mobile app— on app, sorry, mobile web— the ability for the traveler to then stay within Skyscanner and book it, but still be the airline's customer. So the airline issues the PNR and is the merchant of record. So in that sense, we're different from an OTA, but OTAs are a hugely important part of our marketplace. We've recently gone live with Avianca as our first NDC API partner on direct booking in Latin America, which is brilliant, and we're really pleased with that. But I think in itself, NDC allows us to do 2, 3 things. It's a common standard. You know, it's hard to build technology off different airline systems when you have to do each one in a different way.

Silvia Mosquera:Yeah.

Hugh Aitken:And we have over 600 airlines on Skyscanner. And if we have to build one in a different way each time we build direct booking, that just takes a lot of engineers who have to be paid a lot of money. The second— so it's a common standard. It accelerates and makes building easier. The second reason, it lets us merchandise more. So we talk in Skyscanner about being a branded marketplace. So we want our airlines' brands to shine through. If you go on to Avianca's direct booking in Skyscanner, it's an Avianca-branded funnel, not Skyscanner. And that's really important for us. It's a branded marketplace, a bit like Tmall in China. And the third thing is, it's better for the traveler. Ultimately, we're all trying to make it easy for people to search and book for travel. And having a common standard through NDC allows us to do that. Anything that makes travel easier has got to be welcomed. And travel, certainly BookingEasy has got to be welcomed because travel can be frustrating at times. And so allowing us to pull in and build a direct booking branded funnel in Skyscanner just helps us make it easier for our travelers.

Elena Avila:So I guess you are looking to see different perspectives. And from my perspective, I don't know whether I have a specific perspective because my perspective, our perspective as a, you know, IT provider and distributor, GDS, has to be, is that of, you know, our customers So the airlines, the travel agencies, and the consumer. I will, I think, just reinforce a couple of the comments made here. For us, as an IT provider, innovation is something that is quite critical and that we're very excited about with the finally adoption of NDC. We do see the NDC as a foundation of much greater things. And indeed, we are already investing in offer and order management systems, a lot of innovation that is yet to come. So that's something that is definitely exciting. But of course, we first need to get to a point where NDC is adopted at scale. The other thing I will say is, because we said benefits and risks, and not to be the one to talk about, you know, the negatives or the potential risks, but it is important to us. And I think I'm going to do IATA's job here. We have been I think we can claim to be probably the IT provider in the industry that has been championing and investing NDC from the outset the most. And we've been doing a very strong job in trying to get airlines and agencies committing to this. I'll say a couple of things. One, standards are very important. And even from our perspective, we're doing— but just all the players in the industry are doing a lot of investment. And Erika also mentioned to this, this is not It's complex stuff. It requires investment. We're doing a lot of investment, and it has to be worthwhile. There has to be a reasonable return on that. If every airline starts using their own customized API, it isn't going to work. So it's kind of a claim for, you know, adopting these standards. And then just generally for the airlines to think really about how can we make this future-proof? How can this adoption be at scale? I think whether the IT systems are Good for the airlines to sustain the type of volumes we're going to be seeing, and not just the type of volumes, but at the speed and reliability that we need, and to think through using all of the different flows. Servicing in particular, I'll call out to that. I think Erika also mentioned that. It is very important that we go ahead and also think about what happens if there's a change in the booking, what happens with re-shopping. That has to be thought through and adopted as well. And just generally, anything that helps industrialize. Right now we're in a phase where we all understand NDC is a reality, it is happening, but we need to make sure it's industrialized and then that we gain the adoption and the volumes and therefore start reaping the benefits, not just of NDC, but everything that we can build on top.

Eliseo Llamazares:Okay, then we can conclude that the NDC has plenty of benefits for all the parts of the business. The second question, as I have mentioned in the presentation, I think in the experience of Europe, the beginning was difficult, I can say. And then this is, I think, a key question because the relation between travel agencies and the industry and airlines is very important to maintain this good relation and to this close relation. Do you think that the NDC can improve the relation between all the partners in the industry? Hugh?

Hugh Aitken:Yeah, I think what's interesting is, and we just mentioned that NDC was slow to be adopted, very few airlines have Refused to build an NDC system. A number of airlines don't follow IATA standards, which is a challenge. But those who have, I think the big challenges for many airlines has been APIs is a world that many airlines don't understand. Not being disparaging to any airlines who are in this, in the room. And secondly, it's a cost to build this and it takes time and effort. So if you're trying to weigh up the business case for building an API connector to this world outside your own space, versus buying new aircraft or improving the customer experience on board. It's a very hard one to weigh up. And I know which one airline execs would err towards. So I think that's it. But I think there's a snowball which— Erica's presentation earlier on, that slide just showing the 20 airlines was really good. I think when we look at NDC, it helps us in 3 ways with our partners. Firstly, we have to cooperate really closely with them. So with Avianca, we were speaking to the team regularly about what does the funnel look like, what does the branding look like, what are the ancillaries we need in it. Much closer with other airlines like Scoot. And we have a very customized funnel for Scoot on Skyscanner. They sell onboard blankets. Because anybody who's been to Singapore, if the temperature ever goes below 30 degrees, it's cold in Singapore. So when you get onboard, you get your blanket. And the other thing is, The second thing is, ultimately, it helps in the relationship because it lets us better merchandise. So it lets us reflect what the airline's own flow is on their own site, and that's good for us and good for the airline. And finally, it leads to higher yields and higher conversion. So we want Skyscanner to be giving our airlines really good quality traffic and giving them very high converting traffic. And all of the results we've seen with all the airlines who've gone live with direct booking is that particularly in mobile, you know, they see 160 to 200% increase in conversion, and they see 100-plus percent increase in the yields on those redirects just because we can merchandise their own flow within Skyscanner.

Eliseo Llamazares:Silvia?

Silvia Mosquera:Yeah, in fact, in our direct connection with Skyscanner, we saw really good results. We increased our conversion rates. So more sales. Fantastic. Well, I think that at the beginning, the IATA was worried about NDC due to what? It was about cost implementation, how can connect this with the back office, and also what happens with my compensation. But I think that now we are trying to solve all these issues in order to integrate the agencies in the value chain. Because of course, we need them to sell, to close the value chain. Because we are, all of us, part of the value chain. The agencies request content. The aggregators process this content. IT providers help us to build solutions. And finally, airlines deliver this content. So we need all of us engaged in this NDC program.

Elena Avila:Not very much more to add. I think, yes, by definition, almost by definition, something that will improve and increase, you know, improve, bring new opportunities, increase sales, bring more satisfaction to the customers and better experiences, it has to improve the relationship between the different parties, right? Or maybe put it differently, if it doesn't happen, it's never going to happen. If there's no collaboration, then just an EC won't become a reality. The other elephant in the room, of course, is the— I think you alluded to it partly— it's the commercial model around it. I don't think any of us here have 100% of the answer quite yet. We're working through it. But I guess, what's the English expression? Where there's a will, there's a way. As long as there is a win-win-win in this situation, I'm sure we'll find a way. And also, personally, in what we are investing in, in Amadeus, and most of the investments is because really, when we get to that point, we genuinely believe that the benefits that NDC and future innovation will bring to the industry will be far superior and greater to compensate and to put back any other discussions on commercial models. But maybe just to leave that on the table, I don't have the answer yet.

Alicia Lines:Yeah, I agree with what Elena is stating. I think, and as probably everybody in the room knows, the start of NDC, I think we all sat in very different corners and wanted to kill this as soon as it came out. But slowly, everybody recognized the benefits, came together. So I think that that collaboration is there. And moving towards the future, like any disruptor, and this is a major disruptor to the way we've been distributing airline tickets for the last couple of years, it obligates us to sit together and to look forward and to look forward and to look for new solutions. And we cannot survive if we don't work together. So I think we're now at that stage where we are all sitting together looking towards the future. And looking at how can we make our products better and improve, and at the end of the day have a very happy customer going through an easy way of traveling from point A to point Z in the way he wants to and where the customer has control of what he wants to buy, et cetera, et cetera. So I think it's going through a hard process to come to a happier end. Thank you.

Elena Avila:And to add to that, I mean, this industry and changes are such large scale, it's normal that it takes time. I mean, it took us 11 years to get rid of paper ticketing, right? I mean, this is not something that happens very quickly. And the other thing is we've come a long way, as in the standard is infinitely better than when it was first introduced. So it's a lot more stable and strong and complete. Just generally, the— I'm going to call it business model or business view towards NDC has also evolved a lot. I do think, and we think, that the industry is at a good place. It's reasonably mature in their thinking. And I think it's taken a while, but it has evolved a lot.

Eliseo Llamazares:I agree. As Elena has mentioned, I think win-win business is very good for everybody, then that creates a strong and close relation with all the parts. The third question is regarding with the— we have commented that we are in a complex environment today. For example, in the case of the airlines, all the costs are growing.

Elena Avila:A lot.

Eliseo Llamazares:The fuel cost, the labor cost, the currency in the region are showing quite weakness, and this has a very important impact in the financial situation of the airlines. And the additional variables that the airlines has is the, the the uncertainty in the social, economical, and political situation of the region. And this is the complex context that I think all the airlines have during all the time, but it's especially important in the situation in Latin America. In this context that, for example, Silvia mentioned that They are trying to reduce costs, and the part of the distribution cost is a very important cost in the airlines. How this new tool, the NDC, can reduce the cost, creating value, and help create a better customer experience at the same time?

Elena Avila:That's quite all right. My colleague Anna will be quite pleased. So, I mean, the question or the panel and the discussion right here is about NDC, but I guess I could make it a little bit broader and just think generally IT and technology in this case. Certainly from my perspective, since this is a bit of what we do, we do believe this is something that The industry, specifically the airlines, I believe, as soon as they adopt it, they can definitely achieve the cost reduction, which is, I know, we know, a priority. And we hold it— we have it very present in our conversations with them. But I wouldn't want to ignore— and it was actually the conversation right before— is the opportunities for revenue generation, which at the end of the day is the same or even better P&L impact. So— NDC will definitely facilitate by providing better experiences, better content, so on and so forth, as we've discussed, which therefore will probably mean better collaboration with the travel sellers and the different providers and new business models where everybody still is set to win, you know, with reducing the overall distribution cost, traditional distribution cost that airlines are concerned about. Like I said earlier, I don't think I have the answer to that yet, but I do think that the answer is somewhere in the IT and how that can improve the customer experience, generate more revenue opportunities throughout the board.

Eliseo Llamazares:Alicia, how can you answer me to this question in the context of the industry?

Alicia Lines:Yeah, I agree that the cost reduction is probably the most attractive of the benefits for the airlines themselves in terms of immediate— it will require a lot of investment at the beginning, but they will quickly start to see the cost side go down. But this morning we talked about— the keynote speakers spoke about ancillary, and it's the revenue opportunities. And I think it's more, yes, there's a cost reduction, but yes, it's the ancillary and the growth of revenues. I think that's a great point. Through ancillary services, through innovating in what you're going to offer the customer, or letting the customer— provide the customer with that offer that is customized to their needs. So I think it's just changing completely how we're distributing and how we're merchandising and how we're selling where the key change in the game comes.

Eliseo Llamazares:And in the specific case of Avianca, Avianca, how the company are focusing the— is focusing the, the, in this implementation as a cost reduction or as an improvement in the revenues?

Silvia Mosquera:Both, of course. Um, yes, as I said before, we need to reduce distribution costs. It's an important cost in the industry, not as important as fuel, for example, but it's an important cost. Um, so this is one of the reasons, but it's I think that the main reason is to avoid being commoditized through the current channels, because now through a travel agent you can access to all the airlines, but all the airlines are presenting us as a commodity. So I think that the main focus of these projects is to differentiate our product and to offer all our products and services products, services, ancillaries to the customers. And no, I think that is clear for us, and I hope also for agencies, that we have to invest in technology enhancements to avoid falling behind.

Hugh Aitken:Yeah, no, thank you. I think, yeah, what more have I got to add? I'm going to say something controversial here. One of the things that NDC allows us to do is deal directly with the airlines rather than through GDSs. So the more direct connects we get, there's a way to lower costs. Sorry. But I think— but actually, ultimately, GDSs are creating a role for themselves by actually building at pace NDC connectors. So they're creating a role for themselves, which is good for them. But on one level, it allows airlines to lower costs because they take somebody out of that chain.

Elena Avila:Yeah.

Hugh Aitken:Secondly, it lowers costs because it's one standard. So, you know, we only have to build off one schema. That lowers our costs and ultimately lowers all the airlines' costs because there's a common standard. They don't have to develop it themselves. One of the challenges we have is, and this is where the dichotomy comes with NDC and our direct booking initiative, if we are sending Avianca more bookings and they're higher value, it's It's probably going to cost Avianca more money that they'll give to Skyscanner for that referring traffic. So quite often we'll talk to airlines and they'll say, it's great, yeah, your growth is really good, but it's costing me more money. So how do we change the dynamic of that conversation to be about yield and about the— ultimately the yield of that booking versus my cost of distribution are going up in Skyscanner because you're giving me more bookings, so I have to cut those costs? I Because think that's a really good question. I think we're always in a vicious circle of cost. I think if you look at our direct booking initiative, it just ultimately, it's about value to the traveler. It's about value of the traveler seeing a rich offer and being able to book that travel and that trip easily. And that's ultimately what we should be about with it. Cost is a consideration, absolutely. But, you know, if we're making the job easier for travelers, surely that's the right thing to do.

Alicia Lines:Yeah.

Elena Avila:And I mean, just to kind of react to that, and good thing is we're both an IT and a GDS provider, so we're happy to support our colleagues, our customers Avianca, in any direct connect or direct venture that they have. But what I will say is, I mean, you said it, this is about the consumer. We've said it all along, it is about the consumer. Airlines and other travel sellers need to be where the consumers are and make their content available wherever airlines or consumers want to purchase that and in whatever format. So with technology, this is what we're trying to do and support. It's just basically be where your customers want to be and expose your content in the different channels and devices that they need it to be. And that's the only way forward as far as I see it.

Eliseo Llamazares:Interesting, interesting, because It's not just a cost saver. I think in your opinion it's improved revenues and improved the customer experience that is important in the industry. Last question. Last question. I think we had the previous presentation that was great and maybe answered to this question, but I want to have the direct feedback from you. The grade of implementation of the NDC in Latin America in comparison with Europe is totally different, but I want to understand what are the goals in the region and what are the next steps in the short and medium term in the question of the not just to improve or increase the number of airlines that join to this new tool, in terms of generating more capabilities to the tool that we have today. And in the point of view of the industry, what are these new steps?

Alicia Lines:Well, I think the next steps were have been laid out by that 20-20-20 leaderboard that IATA has created. We will see, or we will reap the full benefits, or the industry will reap the full benefits of NDC once critical mass has adopted it. And for us, it's been a road where it started with the creation of the standard, then with the acceptance or the adoption for the airlines to the standard, and now that we have 61, 62, thanks to Avianca that became Level 3 certified just recently.

Silvia Mosquera:Right.

Alicia Lines:So we have 62 airlines now live. Next step will be that critical mass, and how IATA has decided to drive that forward is by implementing the NDC leaderboard where we've set the well-known target of 20% of transactions By the 20 airlines, give or take 20 airlines, at this point we're looking at 21, probably reaching 25 airlines that would like to be part of the leaderboard that will set themselves that objective that they will be major contributors to this one by 2020. And 2020 is a year, 2 years away. It's right around the corner. Is it gonna be easy? Is it a pipe dream? I think we talked about the plumbing and how we only see now the tubes under the floor. There are some skeptics. I think if we don't set challenging objectives for the industry, we will continue lagging and never get there. Will it be with the carrot or with the stick that we will lure the indirect channels to accept NDC? That's a commercial decision, the strategy each airline will have to decide. But what's important for us is to make sure we continue to advocate for the understanding of NDC, of the benefits to the travel agents. There are travel agents that want NDC tomorrow to be made available to them, and there are others that are just trying to kill me to see if they can put a stop to this.

Eliseo Llamazares:I see.

Alicia Lines:and make it disappear and go away. But I think at this point we're there. We just need to push through. Like I said, continue to advocate, continue to educate, support the carriers that are ready to move forward with our expertise, with experience of other carriers, work together as an industry with the IT providers to make sure that we make that that target in 2020 and we achieve that critical mass and then I think it'll be smoother. I don't want to say smooth sailing from there, but it will be smoother sailing once there's more acceptance and understanding.

Eliseo Llamazares:In your specific point of view of Avianca, what is the rate of implementation and what are the strategies in the future of the in-DC tool?

Silvia Mosquera:OK, in fact, before I spoke with Alicia, I told her that for me. I think that is the 20% of sales through NDC in 2020 is a very aggressive objective because now in the region I think that we, we have a lot of work to do. And Avianca is the first airline in Latin America to, to adopt Amadeus Altea NDC. Our first connection was with Skyscanner. In the next day we will have our first agency connected with Avianca through NDC. And we have a roadmap complete for the next 8 years with aggressive objectives, but not as aggressive as IATA. So I think that we have a lot of work to do. As Erika, I think, said before, NDC is here to stay. So now we need to drive critical mass.

Eliseo Llamazares:Elena, in the point of view of the Amadeus that understand what is the situation in the region and what is the capacity to grow in the implementation of this tool in all the airlines, all the full-service carrier airlines in the region, what do you think about this great And what is the future of the development of this tool in the region?

Elena Avila:Well, there's only one direction. So it is going to happen. And by the way, not just full-service carriers. Also a lot of the low-cost carriers, at least the ones that we know through Navitaire, through New Skies, are also thinking NDC. So there is only one direction. The number of meetings, calls, discussions, workshops, etc., etc., is just dramatically increasing. So that means that the interest and the focus is there, and many airlines are telling us that the investment is coming, the commitment is going to be there for next year. So only One Direction, that is very, very clear. If you look at other parts of the world, then obviously there's a lot more airlines which are already in production. The other thing is that there's, there's two sides of the equation. There's the IT systems. You need to be ready to use an NDC solution of sorts. But also the GDSs need to be ready. So, you know, we in Amadeus are Level 3 certified both as an IT and an aggregator. I think we are the only one. But the GDS has come a long way as well to be able to allow the travel agencies really to consume this sort of content. So I guess it hasn't been for that long that this was a reality, except from early adopters and some use cases. I think 2019 is going to be the year where— I don't know if it's the inflection point, but certainly from a momentum perspective, absolutely. And then we'll see the volumes coming 2020, '21, and so on. I agree that maybe in Latin America, the 2020 is far and probably a bit of a challenge. I'm happy to take it, but we're definitely heading in the right direction, and hopefully we will get there soon.

Alicia Lines:If I may add something regarding the leaderboard, it's on purpose that it's a global target because we know there's enormous differences from one region to another in terms of market sophistication, adoption, sophistication of even the customer themselves, access to mobile technology, to forms of payment that will make some regions easier to adopt than others. And then yes, the Americas is always— we're followers, which is not a bad thing. It's a good thing from one perspective because then by the time we get to adopt, others have gone through the growing pains of implementing new technologies and we can just take those best practices and best bets that have worked otherwise to adopt. But the 20-20-20 is a global target. So whether probably the majority will come from North America and Europe in terms of volumes, yes, logically. That's what's expected. But by no means is Latin America going to lag through. This is why we're here. We're here to support and be able to help our member airlines to adopt and be able to implement.

Hugh Aitken:Thank you.

Eliseo Llamazares:Sorry if I—

Alicia Lines:No?

Eliseo Llamazares:In the region, we have a lot of big regional travel agencies, or OTAs, based in the region, and others from the United States or Europe working in Latin America. In the perspective of the OTAs or the travel agencies, What do you think about the implementation in the NDC in Latin America? Because we have mentioned that in Europe was really pretty hard. This is the same, will be same in Latin America, or will be different?

Hugh Aitken:So we see— so Avianca is our first partner in DC. Now we're We're talking to a number of airlines in Latin America about coming on board with direct booking. I think what's interesting for us is NDC is only one of the ways that we connect. We've got, you know, we've now got 30+ airlines on direct booking who have some form of NDC, or who have NDC or some similar form of a shopping API or shopping service that we connect into.

Eliseo Llamazares:Mm-hmm.

Hugh Aitken:So, you know, we— and we're getting pretty good at developing off the back of slightly variable connections. But we do see, you know, NDC is taking a time to develop, and for valid reasons. But there are other ways that airlines are increasingly starting to connect with us. So I think it's important not just to say it's only NDC that allows people like Skyscanner and others to do what we would like to do, but there are other ways that airlines are connecting with us.

Eliseo Llamazares:And I think that's a really good point.

Hugh Aitken:There are other ways we can do it as well. And I think it's coming back to that theme. All we're trying to do is, you know, we are one of the places where the traveler is. The 70+ million people every month are coming to Skyscanner. Now, in your home market, an airline, quite rightly, that's a very different dynamic. But what we give is the global scale. So it's not lost on Avianca that we've launched direct booking in the UK, Spain, and So 3 markets where their brand will be less— will have less profile of the brand and less awareness of their brand in their home market. So I think that's where, you know, a direct booking initiative using NDC or whatever other connection really helps the airline.

Eliseo Llamazares:Thank you. Somebody want to ask something to the panelists?

Alicia Lines:I think everybody wants to ask something.

Hugh Aitken:Yes.

Elena Avila:Come on, it's only 4:30.

Eliseo Llamazares:Everybody, I think it was a very interesting panel. The conclusion, the final conclusion, I think that is a win-win solution for the industry and the future. I think it's very, very, very good for this. Okay.

Alicia Lines:Thank you.

Elena Avila:Thank you.

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