Airline Leader Interview, Malaysia Aviation Group President & Group CEO Captain Nasaruddin Bakar

Transcript

Michael Bell:Captain, thank you for joining us today. We're absolutely honored to have Captain Nasaruddin Bakar, who is the Group CEO and President at Malaysia Airlines Group, with us today. Thank you for coming and joining.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Thank you, Michael. Thank you for having me here, and this is my first time in Hokkaido. It's going to be interesting for me to look around Hokkaido later as well.

Michael Bell:Yeah, beautiful. We went into town yesterday. I'm sure you're going to enjoy it.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:I hope so later.

Michael Bell:We have about 30 minutes. Time permitting, we'll take some questions on Slido, which is open, so feel free to share those and they'll pop up on the screen here. A little bit of background before we get into the discussion with Captain. Just appointed into the Group CEO role, CEO role in February, so brand new in the role. Congratulations.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Thank you so much.

Michael Bell:Yes, but has been with the organization for some time, was the Chief Operating Officer of the organization before that, drove many of the important growth and transformation efforts. 30 years of aviation experience, pilot, deep background in not only flight operations but human factors, business transformation, And has held important roles across different parts of the Malaysia Airlines Group ecosystem. Now serves on IATA Board of Governors, Chairman of the AAPA Executive Committee on the Oneworld Governing Board, given Malaysia's role in that regard. So, a very distinguished career. A little bit about Malaysia Airlines Group, coming on 80 years, right?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Next year. Next year we'll be celebrating our 80 years.

Michael Bell:Happy anniversary. Important time. We're going to be talking about what that means for you guys. Wholly owned subsidiary of sovereign fund Khazanah Nasional Berhad, which is the sovereign wealth fund of Malaysia. I mentioned it's a OneWorld member since 2013, so it's been some time. 109 aircraft. There's actually 3 airlines, if I understand correctly. That's right.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Malaysia Airlines, Firefly, and also today we've got Aman.

Michael Bell:Yes, Amal being for the Hajj.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:For the Hajj.

Michael Bell:The Hajj flying.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Middle East, that's right.

Michael Bell:70-plus destinations across Asia, Australia, Europe, Middle East, North America, and also a multidimensional business. It is not just the 3 airlines, but there's an engineering group, a catering subsidiary, loyalty business, etc., which we'll, we'll talk about. 12,000 to 14,000 staff and delivering some great results, which we want to get into. So That's a little bit the background. Captain, let's start with strategy, where you guys are headed as a business.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Okay.

Michael Bell:Part of your remit is to develop, implement Long-Term Business Plan 3.0. You were a key part of implementing the 2.0. So what is 3.0? What are the key pillars of that and why? What's behind the plan, if you will?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Right. So, Michael, thanks for having me here today. So we started with what we call the Long-Term Business Plan. We have had, of course, sequence of the numbers. We had 1, 2, and 3. 2.0 finishes last year, December 2025, and we embarked to 2026 with the Long-Term Business Plan 3.0. So what we do in LTPP 3.0, we call it LTPP, is to ensure that we can develop from the progress that we had in the LTPP 2.0. And, you know, in this industry, we've seen a lot of crisis. We had many, many crises in the last 4 years. We've seen 2, the COVID and also the one that we're having today, which is a fuel price crisis.

Michael Bell:And you guys had some challenges before that with aircraft incidents and the like.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Exactly. And, you know, I think as an industry in the last 50 years, we've seen like 11, 12 crises. We've got the 9/11, we've got the Arab Spring, we've got the financial crash, SARS, and others. But some of the learnings that we got in all this crisis, to me, there are 3 main fundamentals. Number one is, as an airline, in every crisis, you have to be very certain of your business model. You don't want to become a low-cost yesterday, after the crisis you want to become a luxury airline, right? So you have to be certain of what is your business model. Number 2, in every crisis, we understand that we have to continue investing on certain things, one of which that we are really focused on is on our product. and also in our customer, on our people, right? Because once the crisis ends, there will be recovery, and we want to be there when it's ending. And number 3, of course, because this is high-intensive CapEx industry, and the margin is very little, very thin, we have to ensure that our cash is pretty strong. So to your point, what is LTBP 3.0? We had crisis, my predecessor have managed to rebuild the airline, they have, we have stabilized the airline, in LTPP 2.0. LTPP 3.0 is about how do you upscale the company, how do you enhance the company, hence how do you grow the company. So we have got roughly 4 strategic pillars. First and foremost, being an airline in this APAC region, we want to be a premium airline, right? What does that mean? It means we want to ensure that our customers are seeing us as a premium. So generally there are 5 models of business in the airline. You've got ultra-low cost, you got low cost, you got value, premium, also luxury. We in Malaysia Airlines, we are certain that we want to become a premium airline in this part of the world. Number 2, you know, some of the learnings that we've got, we are in the Oneworld today. We've got 30 codeshares, we've got 80 interline agreements with all the airlines. Deepening our partners with all our partnership to— with the partners is very important, right? And we know with the number of aircraft that we've got, 100 over aircraft, we won't be able to go places. So with partners, not only the airline partners, but our technology partners, our MRO partners, our cargo partners, that's how we are able to grow in our LTPP 3.0. And number 3, being in the service industry is very important for us to ensure that we are one of the market leaders in terms of our operations. When I say operations, this is about on-time performance. I'm happy to say that this year we're looking at about 94% on-time performance.

Michael Bell:That's impressive.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Yeah, I think we did quite well. Pat on the back. Because, you know, we came many, a few years ago, we were doing about 50%, 60%. So today I'm seeing about 90%. So it's important for us. We want to be a market leader in terms of our operations excellence, our on-time performance, our customer experience, and that's very important. And last pillar is, as a company, how resilient you want to be. So one of the things that we learned from COVID was this. You know, everything was parked under the airline, and when COVID happens, everything stops. So we were struggling very, very bad. So one of the things that we did in 2023, that we restructured our organization. We have an airline business, and we do also have the non-airline business. And it's important for us today to really focus on that non-airline business because we know the non-airline business, the likes of our cargo, MRO, give us a high single-digit margin, right? Airline today, 2026 is gonna be very tricky, right? It's gonna be very challenging. I know IATA has given some data points saying that global average margin is about 3 to 4%, APAC is about 2%, but it's gonna be very difficult to even hit 1% margin, right? However, the non-airline business are able to give you high single-digit, 8, 9%.

Michael Bell:You're diversifying the business.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Yes, you have to do that. So generally in the LTPP 3.0, The Long-Term Business Plan 3.0 is about how do we use these 4 strategic pillars to bring the company crisis, rebuild it, stabilize it, and how do you enhance it?

Michael Bell:Let's take some of those elements, and particularly the premium carrier positioning. You were quoted after the crisis hit that notwithstanding the crisis, you were going to stay with the program and continue in that direction. But why do you want to be a premium carrier? Isn't that a crowded space in Southeast Asia?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Well, it is for sure. But today, it's not about volume. Yesterday, my predecessor was mentioning, moving forward, it's not just about volume, it's about you need to get the right market, right? So today, our focus is not only on leisure market, we want to tap the corporate market. To tap this corporate market, you need to have some substance as a company. So what we're doing, we do have what we call the CVP or customer value proposition to ensure that we can elevate ourselves to become the premium airline. One of the things that we wanted to do is our cabin. In the last 3 years, we invested on 95 aircraft. We have made an order for 95 aircraft, 55 on the narrowbodies on the 737 and also 40 on the widebodies on the NEOs. And hopefully in the next 1 or 2 months, we should be making an announcement as well on the replacement of our long-range widebody, which is currently on our A350-900M. So first customer value proposition that we want to push ourselves to become a premium carrier is you need to have the right cabin, right? So hence fleet modernization is important. We are replacing this aircraft. Of course, there will be a little bit some growth so that we're able to elevate ourselves to become a premium carrier. Number 2, you know, being Malaysians, we've got Malay, we've got Chinese, we've got Indians, we've got ethnic Malaysians. And we love food, right? So one of the things that we want to showcase to our customers, Michael, is food, food of Malaysia. And in the last 7 months, we have introduced 30 new menus on board our flights. And I think that's something that we're very proud of. We're also investing in our catering facilities as well. As an example, we just groundbreaking for our catering facilities in July. So we hope we do have that building, are able to produce about 50,000 to 60,000 meals.

Michael Bell:Do you serve other airlines with that as well too?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:If it's completed in 2028, yes, the intent is—

Michael Bell:Part of your diversification.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Exactly, exactly. And we know the margin for the catering can give you double-digit margin, about 18% to 20%. So driving food to us is very important, and we are in the service business. And what we're not selling, airfare, we're not selling cheap oil. or high fare, but what we're trying to do as a company is to sell experience. By giving them food that we believe are something that we are very proud of as Malaysians, are able to elevate the premiumness.

Michael Bell:Are you mounting a big marketing program to get the message out around this different positioning, or the new Malaysian, if you will?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:We can do better. We have done it, but we can do better of that. We have not shouted enough in promoting all those, but yes, we can do better. Highlight on those, and those are the plans that we wanted to do in the LPP 3.0. The 3rd customer value proposition, why we want to become a premium airline, is, you know, Malaysia Airlines has won the world's best cabin crew for 7 times. This was in the early 2000s, right? And we believe in our people, we believe in our staff. Quite recently, I'm proud to say as well, just last 2 weeks in Skytrax, we won the best airline staff in Asia. So we want to, we want to ensure that our people are able to deliver the Malaysian hospitality. So with these 3 customer value propositions, our cabin, our food, and also our cabin crew, we hope we can elevate ourselves to become the premium airbag carrier at least. So that's the intent. And I know competition is stiff. I've got my friend in Singapore, I've got my friends in Thailand, maybe they're here. But yeah, that's what it is. And that's the game that we want to play.

Michael Bell:What does that mean for your hub in KL and how you evolve that and the route network around it? You talked a little bit about, or here about the more visible, let's say, product attributes, but how about from a network standpoint? How are you going to evolve that?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Great. So, you know, when we revise our network many years ago, we are focused on certain part of the world, and we know that part of the world has got the highest growth in terms of industry and its And that part of the world is APAC region. Global average, both passengers and cargo, we were looking about 4% to 5% growth in the next 20 years, but APAC will be a bit higher than that. We're seeing, we're looking at about 2% higher. So in our, in terms of our network, Michael, it's MAG, or Malaysia Aviation Group, which is a holding company, is focused on the APAC region. This is the likes of South Asia, Middle East, East Asia, even Australia, and we do have stations in Europe. And this is— the purpose is not to do a point-to-point, instead to do flow via Kuala Lumpur. And, you know, hence to your question, hence the hub is very important. We need to create that connectivity. And I just also like to say that Kuala Lumpur International Airport today is number 4 most connected airport in the world, right? And on both segments, low cost and also the corporate level, right? But so I think we want to take leverage of that. So as an airline, what we have introduced to ensure that people do fly through Kuala Lumpur is we introduce a lot of product, one of which that I can share with all of you is what we call the Bonus Side Trip. What it means is if you're flying from London, for instance, going to Sydney via Kuala Lumpur, you are able to take a free flight from, in Malaysia, 8 destinations. You wanted to go to Melaka, right? Yes. But Melaka is just 1 hour away. A

Michael Bell:private jet you can arrange?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Oh, no, maybe taxi. So, so this product that we have introduced, what we call the BonaSight Clip, are able for you to travel for free in these 8 states.

Michael Bell:So it's a stopover program with a flight within the country?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Exactly.

Michael Bell:Included?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Included. So it's your option. Yeah, you can, you can use to do that. You can opt to take that. So you can fly to the Langkawi Island, to Kuching, and others. So those are the things what we're trying to do. But to bring Kuala Lumpur as a hub is very important for us as the ecosystem in Malaysia to work together to ensure that we're able to— I

Michael Bell:was going to say, is the airport on board with this? You talk about partnership with airlines. How is the Malaysia Airports organization as a partner to support you?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:So I'll give you some analogy. We've got the same father, the same shareholder, right? So it means the collaboration that we need to do, airline, airport, even our regulators, has to be strong. And all parties in Malaysia do believe that we need to create that ecosystem to ensure that Kuala Lumpur can continue to become the hub of Southeast Asia. And one, secondly, I wanted to highlight, you know, geographically Malaysia is smack in the Southeast Asia region. We are smack in the center. Of course, Singapore and Bangkok is just But we got all other super hubs. We got Shanghai, maybe I can say Jakarta as well. So we have to put ourselves visible to not only airlines, but also to all the public out there that we, Kuala Lumpur, can become a hub at this part of the world.

Michael Bell:You mentioned fleet. You have a substantial order. It sounds like maybe more coming, but is that growth? Is it replacement? Some of it has to be replacement. You talked about modernizing the fleet, but talk a little bit about that mix, if you will, and how you plan on deploying the aircraft.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Right. So currently, we used to have 60% narrowbodies, 40% widebodies, or maybe about 67%, 67%, 33% narrowbodies and widebodies. We've made about 95 aircraft on orders the last 2, 3 years, and we are about 105 aircraft today some freight aircraft as well. So in this coming aircraft, the plan is to have a balance of that mixture, right? Of which 70% about fleet replacement to replace the old aircraft. Our age, age of our aircraft today is hovering about 10.2 years, and by having this new modern aircraft coming in, we should bring it down to about 6.6 years for all the aircraft. So 70%, I would say, about fleet replacement, about 20-odd percent close to 30%, is on the growth. In 2030, because of what we're trying to do is, first, the now additional number of aircraft. Number 2, the ratio between the narrowbodies and widebodies will be approximately about 50-50. So we should be seeing an additional capacity of about 50% more from what we have today in 2030. So we believe those mixture of this aircraft is very important because, as I mentioned, Our focus is on the APAC region. We have just launched 6 new stations this year. We just launched Fukuoka, I think about a month ago. We have added in 3 China destinations in the last 3, 4 months. We're going into Kunming another 2 months as well. So it's important for us to put our mark at all these destinations, but we are very cautious of what we have today. So meaning we really have to look at disciplined execution of the destination. We look at the network, we look at the network flow, we look at our aircraft, and more importantly, we look at the economics of the route, whether does it make sense or not. So those are the mixtures of aircraft.

Michael Bell:How about product innovation apart from the food, which obviously is a source of differentiation given what you said culturally, but Wi-Fi, in-flight entertainment, especially on long-haul flying premium passengers, they Expectation level keeps rising there.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Yeah, you know, I think about 3 or 4 years ago, we were one of the first airlines that offered Wi-Fi for free for the whole cabin. After that, people have started doing it, they become better than us.

Michael Bell:You were the leaders.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:We were the leaders, right? We were the leaders. But of course, some other airlines, they got more money, they were trying to improvise themselves. So now we see a lot of other airlines are doing a lot of other things on Wi-Fi. You know, we are looking to that. That's one of the things that we're doing some investment. Remember I told you, in crisis number 2, you must continue investing on your product and people. So those are the things that we wanted to look at. We're looking not only at the LEO, we're looking even at GEO and also MEO to see what will be the right equipment for us on board our aircraft. Yes, those are one of the things that we really want to push to have a better aviation Wi-Fi on board this aircraft.

Michael Bell:You mentioned one of the things that you keep a close eye on is cash, right? Of course. Financial results have been pretty impressive. Group revenue's up 6%. Your EBITDA performance is up 100%, if I'm not mistaken, over 2024. So you're delivering on the results notwithstanding these conditions. You mentioned '26 will be challenging, but to what do you attribute the financial success that you've been enjoying?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:I think in the last few years, what we have been focusing is, of course, you need to really optimize your cost. So that's super, super, super important, right? And you know, this industry is like a wave. One day the fuel price is great, another day the fuel price can shoot up more than 100%. So optimizing your cost is very important. We review, I told the team that we always have to review our process every 2 years. If you don't review your process every 2 years, you are planning to fail. Because everything else surrounding you will change in the next 2 years. Let it be technology, let it be the leaders out there, let it be the decision makers, let it be the regulations. So you need to change your process frequently. 2 years is—

Michael Bell:What process are you referring to?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Anything, even—

Michael Bell:Your operational processes?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Operation process, even our financing process. It has to be reviewed very, very frequently to optimize your costs. Secondly, of course, in businesses, to your financial, your question about financial performance, is how do you drive strong revenue performance, right? So we are quite focused on our market. We wanted to ensure that we get the right market segment that we want, and we do not fly to all stations. With all the partners that we've got through our Oneworld, with all the airlines that we have been codeshare, our joint business partners, Japan Airlines is one of it, which is very strong. We are meeting, we are going to more than 1,000 destinations. So to ensure a strong revenue is very important for us to drive the right financial results moving forward, right? Especially this year. I mentioned to you that fuel and all the airline leaders this year in here is also in the know that fuel is really putting a toll to the airline performance. We are the same, we're not spared. But what we have to do smartly, hopefully that we are able to cushion the impact of the fuel. We have got fuel hedging, we're doing about 36% this year. Of course, we are one of the airlines also have introduced fuel surcharge. That's not popular among the public, but we have to do it. In this part of the world, Michael, we are not able to pass through all the costs to the consumers. We can't, right? So the most that we can do based on our dynamic pricing, based on the supply and demand, we are only able to increase our fare to about 20% to 30% the most. So with that, a lot of the things that we are trying to do to cushion the impact It is, it's working, but the impact of the fuel is just too high. So it's giving us a significant pressure to our financial performance for this year. So it's going to be quite tricky for us. We will continue the momentum. We need to be very disciplined to get the revenue, and also we need to be very disciplined in optimizing the cost.

Michael Bell:Captain, you, you mentioned about reviewing the processes on a regular basis. You and I in our prep call discussed this This topic of transformation. You've driven a lot of transformation at the company, but when is too much transformation an issue? Doesn't the organization also need some buffering from it, you know, from the leader, if you will?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:For sure. You know, if you transform every day, you won't have the time to be stabilized, right? So one of the things that we learned in many, many of our transformation is we've got great strategies, Michael, but whether are you able to strategically execute all the strategy is another big So in all this work that we're trying to do, even our LTPP 3.0, we've got a great strategy that we have set up for a few months now, and I think it's a strategy that will remain even though we have got a few crises in the Middle East. Now it's just a matter of how do we transform our people to execute that effectively. I hope it can be 100%, right, for all the 100 leads that we wanted to do as an example. So one of the things that we really have to transform is also the mindset of our people. As I said, we were in crisis before many, many times, especially Malaysia Airlines with the 2 airplanes, 370 and 317. We have rebuilt, we have stabilized, and to grow to the next level, you have to have a different mindset, the mindset of a businessman, the mindset of entrepreneurship. Everything that we touch must deliver money. Everything that we invest must have the ROIC, right? So, That kind of transformation will need to go with Malaysia Airlines. That's something that I'm really deeply in my heart that I'm really going to push, and I hope that we'll be able to deliver the LTPP 3.0 number.

Michael Bell:One of the topics I wanted to touch on was sustainability, but we have a question that goes to this in part, which is, have the group seen improvements in customer satisfaction fuel now that the 737 MAX and A330neo Deliveries are well underway.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:So I link that question to the word that you use, sustainability, as well. You know, this new aircraft has given us an excellent fuel improvement. I think those 2 aircraft, the 737 MAX and also the neo, are giving us about 12% to 14% fuel efficiency. And that's great, great for our money, great for our pocket, and also great for sustainability. And the passengers love it as well because our A320neo For the economy class, I think we won the best economy class, if I'm not wrong, in, in South Asia or APAC about a few months ago. So yeah, it does help us to ensure that we're able to deliver the efficiency of our operations. And also the customer loves the 2 aircraft.

Michael Bell:Staying on fleet, one of the questions with regard to aircraft procurement, are there any plans to purchase from COMAC?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Right. So, you know, as an airline, whenever we wanted to choose an aircraft, it's very important for us to look at our network plan. Where do we want to go? Do you want to focus 5 to 10 hours flight? Do you want to focus more than 12 hours flight? So our network plan is important. Number 2, in choosing a manufacturing aircraft, you have to ensure the safety of all those aircraft. We do assessment of all the manufacturers, whether they are delivering safety of what we needed. And number 3, does it fit with with our setup of operations. As an example, if we've been using a Type A of aircraft for whole of our fleet, right, it will be more seamless for us to maintain a Type A of aircraft, right? But the third function is about the economics. So with all those assessments, we will see and have a look. And it's important for us to, as an industry, to have a lot of varieties of manufacturers, right? So, you know, the dual-poly or the tri-poly has been doing— been running for the longest time. I think it's important for other players, Embraer, COMAC, to be in play. We were in this, we talked in COMAC, but as I said, there are elements of selections, how we select this.

Michael Bell:A broad set of criteria.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Exactly, yes.

Michael Bell:Coming back to the network, one of the questions which is interesting because it comes to the premium positioning and whether this would work with or against that, network traffic, presumably connecting traffic, is inherently lower yield and dilutionary. And Malaysia has formidable competition across Southeast Asia. What is planned to develop Malaysia as an origin destination, if you will?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Right. So as I mentioned just now, it's important for us as the whole ecosystem in Malaysia to create Malaysia as a go-to point for leisure market and also corporate market. We are working with the Tourism Board in Malaysia to ensure that we're able to bring MICE product like this. So a lot of seminars have been held in Malaysia as well. So that will generate a lot of corporate interest flying to Kuala Lumpur. So those are just one example, Michael, but all in all, what we need trying to do is, as an ecosystem in Malaysia, airlines, airport, our regulators, even our governments has to work together to figure out what will be the best way to attract this high-yield customer coming into Malaysia.

Michael Bell:Well, we can't wrap the session without talking about my favorite subject, which is leadership and culture, right? Okay. You are coming on the heels of a gentleman who was honored here yesterday with an Excellence Award.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:He is today. There he is.

Michael Bell:Congratulations. Longest-serving CEO in the group's history as well too. So how do you build on that legacy? And when you ultimately step out and receive your own Excellence Award here in CAPA, what will be your legacy?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Well, the guy down there has been my mentor and my coach for the longest time. I've been in the industry, in the company, for more than 3 decades now. I've been watching him and following him. So to me, my predecessor's legacy is how he brings the company, which is in crisis, he built the company and to stabilise the company. You know, when we talk about legacy, Michael, it's not about for me to say, it's for the public to say what is that legacy. What is your legacy? What are the things that I have created or delivered in MAG. But if I wanted to be one, I would think that I would like to create a company, a legacy of financial sustainability. It means, as I mentioned to you, the margin is very, very thin. There are airlines in the world that are doing about 4 or 5% margin. And I hope I can bring stability and growth in the company where our margin will stay that way. And at least if anything happens, if any crisis happens, we have got a lot of buffer to play with. So I hope that could be something that I would able to deliver in MAG and people will remember me for that.

Michael Bell:We talked about the fact that the airline will be 80 years old next year. With that undoubtedly comes some element of what I call calcification, right? Change resistance and the like. You want to make it a more business-oriented company. How are you going to pull that off, if you will, and get people to see the need for change?

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Interesting. So, when I do my town halls, one of the things that I told my— our team is that as a leader of the company, I'm not running the financial number. I'm running the people that runs the people that runs the people that runs the financial number. So, it means every transformation, every mindset is about the people, right? So, what we have in MAG is we have created what we call the EVP. employee value proposition. And in general, what it means is how do we address our people? So we've got 4 segments that we want to look for. Number one, we talk about the growth of our people. When I say the growth is how do we mobilize our people from finance to strategy, strategy to operation, so that we are able to allow these people to grow. My predecessor was doing about, what, 16, 17 portfolios before he became the CEO. I've done about 14 portfolios before this as well. I was a cabin crew when I started this job. And, and so growing, growing our people is very important to ensure that we are able to have that mindset. Number 2 is what's the right culture? As a company, we have to set the right practices, the right environment so that our people are able to have that mindset to go moving forward. Number 3, of course, is about what will be the right reward? This is What will be the right performance? What will be the right salary allowances and others? Number 4, and very importantly, what will be the right well-being? What we have done, maybe in the last few months, we have done a lot of activities with sports in the company. We bring in about 3,000-4,000 of our people to do a semi-marathon, as an example. That allows to ensure that we are able to push the well-being of our people. So those are some of the things, Michael, that, you know, MAG is trying to do to change the mindset. Since you said we have been a legacy airline, we started in 1947, we started with Malayan Airways in 1947, and we've been around for the longest time. To change people is not an easy task, but there's something that we have strategically designed. How do we change our people to have a growth mindset?

Michael Bell:Well, every airline ultimately takes on some element of the personality of its leader. Tell us one thing about who Captain Nasar is as a person. We joked before coming on stage about doing an interview that had nothing to do with the airline. Give us something about who you are and how that will shape who Malaysian becomes.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:I spent about 15 years of my life— first 2 years of my life, I was doing cabin crew when I got back from flying school. That was in '92, '93. And I was doing a full-time pilot about 10, 12 years, 10 to 15 years. And while I was doing this pilot, I've got a lot of time as well. Because I was doing a fleet that's not flying as much. So when I was doing those aircraft, and I got ample time, I was doing a lot of activities outside. Meaning I was doing a lot of promotion of sports aviation. It's not aviation per se. This is, we're talking about ultralight, microlight, paragliding, paramotors. So, and I do that a lot, and I'm really passionate to do that because I see people love, and we were introducing those sports in Malaysia. So as a person, you know, being in the company for 30, over 30-plus years, my purpose at this point of time is how I can give back, not only to the sports that I love, which is the sports aviation that I've been doing to the public, but how I can give back to the company that I've already owned for the last 33 years, right? So to me, that takes a lot of my time today, Michael. And even if I'm outside of work environment, I'll try to figure out how to be able to give back to this, the community, and also to the company. That's who I am.

Michael Bell:Well, I must say, unfortunately, we're at time, but we could have kept going here because it's a fascinating story and plan. I must say, I was superbly impressed by the successful transition you've engineered, Captain Ismail, to yourself, and also by the incredible thoughtfulness of your plan going forward. Hopefully, you'll agree with me and join me in thanking the Captain for joining us today. Thank you, sir.

Captain Nasaruddin Bakar:Thank you, Michael.

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