Airline Leader Interview, COPA CEO Pedro Heilbron

Transcript

Michael Bell:Well, what can I say? Absolute honor to be hosting a discussion with Pedro, icon in the industry. Most of you know him and his story, but I think it would benefit to do a little recap for everyone's benefit. I'd like to make Pedro blush a little bit because he's a very modest guy. Incredible 38 years CEO of Copa. I keep reading that that is like one of the longest-serving— it must certainly be the longest-serving CEO in the industry, correct, Pedro?

Pedro Heilbron:You know, maybe. That's what they say. I'm not sure.

Michael Bell:The Aviation Guinness Book of Records. You've really transformed the company, and we'll talk a little bit about Copa, from a small regional domestic carrier into a major force Anybody who flew into Tocumen saw what an amazing, powerful hub you have there today. You forged the alliance with Continental, which really helped transform the company, moved the carrier into Star Alliance, launched Wingo, took the company public, and really it's been an incredible story of developing, implementing, keeping constant to a business model that has delivered remarkable results. With great discipline, I would say. We'll look to learn about that. You've obviously been recognized globally for your efforts: Airline Business Lifetime Achievement Award, Executive Leadership Award from CAPA, Tony Janus Award, and numerous others. You've also played a big role at the industry level as well, serving on the IATA Board of Governors and its Executive Committee, Star Alliance, ALTA.

Pedro Heilbron:Yes.

Michael Bell:The list goes on and on. About Copa itself, flag airline of— flag carrier of the country, publicly listed company. Copa Holdings operates this tremendous hub, which really brings traffic flowing north-south through the Americas, making typically thin routes highly profitable by aggregating demand. 88 or so destinations, 32 countries, 420 daily flights, and incredibly, I know you ventured for a while into the Embraer world, still very much a single fleet type, which we're going to talk about around the Boeing 737 model. Incredible punctuality, top 5 in the world, Cirium Award winners. I saw the sticker on your airplane yesterday. You're continuing to innovate in the Starlink rollout for the internet, et cetera. A great story, Pedro.

Pedro Heilbron:Thank you.

Michael Bell:a discussion a little bit around your fleet. You've maintained this incredible discipline with a 737 fleet and its variants, if you will. I remember for years Southwest, it wasn't so much what type of airplane did we need to fly that route, it's where can we make money with this airplane type. Is that the philosophy at Copa, or why is it that you've stuck to the 737?

Pedro Heilbron:First of all, good morning. It's great that you're here in Panama, and this event is running like 10 minutes early, so I just got in and then like 5 seconds later I'm up here, so I'm still like cold.

Michael Bell:Let's give everybody a 10-minute break, go get your coffees.

Pedro Heilbron:Exactly. So I like the music walking up, but I'm like, just what happened here? You know, I was supposed to like warm up for 10 minutes.

Michael Bell:You're among friends.

Pedro Heilbron:Read my notes and get ready, and then all of a sudden I'm like here and we're talking. So I just don't want to not wish you a good morning. And again, thank you for being in Panama. I hope you can enjoy some of the country besides this meeting in this dark room. So the fleet—

Michael Bell:Let's turn up the lights.

Pedro Heilbron:No, no, no, no, it's cool. It's okay like this. I just left my sunglasses home, but anyway. The fleet. So you kind of said it. When one commits to a single fleet, then one needs to adjust to what can be done with that single fleet. And we, I mean, today with the MAX, Similar to the A320neo family, one can fly pretty much anywhere. But when we started growing the hub, we just had the NGs, the 737-700 and -800 NGs. For a while, Copa operated the 5 longest routes anywhere with 737s. Actually, the longest in history. And that was a fact until the MAX came around and everyone started flying longer hauls, longer routes. And the reason for that, in a way, is that Latin America is a very long continent with cities far apart. So we had no choice.

Michael Bell:The aircraft works for you, especially with the versatility of the aircraft.

Pedro Heilbron:Now it works very well for us and it works for many others. I mean, now aircraft have much better range.

Michael Bell:You've introduced some product enhancements, lie-flat, etc. Are there issues with not offering a wide-body service on longer routes, 5 hours, 6 hours? Do passengers view that as a disadvantage?

Pedro Heilbron:Well, it's a trade-off. In the old days, there were 747s flying all over the big cities of the world. Today, we have 787s or A330s or whatever connecting a bunch of cities that would not have gotten service if it was not for those planes. Then furthermore, now we have the A321XLR and planes like that, like the 757 did before, tying much smaller cities with nonstop service. There's been a transition. There's been a huge transition over the last— I don't know, Continental Airlines were the pioneers, I would say, Flying the 757 transatlantic.

Michael Bell:Across the Atlantic.

Pedro Heilbron:Exactly. We did the same going north and south, but now everyone does it, transatlantic.

Michael Bell:Pedro, you brought up those airplanes, and I was going to ask you this question on the network topic, but I'll ask it now. Those are some of the hub bypass aircraft serving those thinner routes profitably, A321 in particular. What threat, if anything, if at all, does that pose to your hub-and-spoke model?

Pedro Heilbron:Well, I would say that any hub-and-spoke carrier is facing those same threats worldwide. It wouldn't be the first time that we have to deal with something like it. The way we see it, There will still be enough small markets that cannot be served nonstop even with an A321 type of aircraft, but it also forces us to be much better. It forces the hub of the Americas at Tocumen International Airport to be also much better. Authorities, airlines, we all need to up our game. to be able to continue competing successfully, and now with aircraft that can bypass the hub. But again, to a point, it's not an inexpensive aircraft. It's still plus 220 seats, so there's still room for us, but we'll be challenged more than today.

Michael Bell:Presumably, you can also offer greater frequency given your hub versus the daily that they might do.

Pedro Heilbron:Well, that's kind of what has happened with the— what it started with the 75 and then everything that's happened in the world with nonstop service, direct service between smaller cities. One can also compete with more frequency, but at the end of the day, whatever we do or whatever we did before, we need to do it a lot better today to be able to compete against those Let's say new options.

Michael Bell:Which I think reflects a little bit why you guys have been so incredibly successful for so long is this. You're not complacent. You don't sit on your laurels and count your chickens or your hens. Let's talk about continuing on fleet. You placed a historic order, $13.5 billion, 60 new 737 MAX jets. Tell us about that.

Pedro Heilbron:Why?

Michael Bell:How are you going to deploy those? Is that growth? Is that replacement?

Pedro Heilbron:The first thing is the why. Of course, airlines need planes to grow. That's obvious. One of the tricky things about aviation that very few industries have to deal with is that we're buying aircraft For deliveries in 8 or more years, not having any idea of how the world is going to look in 8 years, how Latin America is going to look in 8 years. So in a way, we need to calculate well our risks, but we need to take some chances because we need to order. And the other reason— well, that's kind of a fact we deal with. The reason for that is that if we were not to order, if we had not ordered planes, the order we signed early this year, which was closed the year before in 2025, but we signed that I think in January of this year or something like that. Today, we're getting deliveries up to 2034, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, the next 8 years. But if we were to sign something today, we would probably have to add 2 more years in terms of when we would— okay, so we're getting the first deliveries in 2030 for this new order. Actually, I have to correct myself. If we were to sign today, we would probably not get deliveries until 2034 or something like that.

Michael Bell:So you're buying yourself some optionality, right, on growth?

Pedro Heilbron:So we have to take the chance Of ordering aircraft, not knowing what the future is going to look like. Because if we don't, if we don't do so, then there won't be any aircraft. So right now, it would be like 8 years before we can get any new deliveries. Of course, we still have 40 aircraft that we're going to be getting in the next 4 years. But we had to add to that order. Otherwise, After 4 years, we would have no aircraft.

Michael Bell:You'd be shut out.

Pedro Heilbron:We would then depend only on lessors that are probably going to have more demand than supply. Anyway, but we do hedge our risk. The only way our board would approve any major investment is if we can show them what would happen or what we would do if things go the wrong way.

Michael Bell:What would you do?

Pedro Heilbron:Our orders have slide rights, so we can delay deliveries up to 3 years, a significant number of deliveries. That's one. We also have lease expirations, so we have plenty of lease expirations staggered. Then we also have How many are, like, a very large number of unencumbered aircraft, aircraft that are all paid for, and including the 737-700s, of which we have 9. And we want to consolidate more around the -800 MAX 8 and the MAX 9 and not have like a third configuration, which is the -700s, which are older aircraft. We're flying them because they fly great. They're still very reliable and economic because we can serve smaller markets with those aircraft and because we need them. If things were to slow down, we can park the 700s and we can also return a bunch of leased 800s and we can actually keep our growth rate Almost flat.

Michael Bell:So you've mitigated the risk. So we're coming back to network. We talked a little bit about the hub bypass, but how about competitive hubs? Bogotá, Lima, El Salvador, now Santo Domingo. Representatives from Aerogéne in the audience here. How do you see those alternative hubs compared to Panama City? What does it mean for you guys?

Pedro Heilbron:So that's what makes the business interesting, right? You need to battle someone, something, Every business, every industry gets better by having to go against a different product, innovation, a competitor, or something. We know that's part of the business. We are very much on top of our competitors. We follow them closely, but we do what makes sense for us. We have never been— we imitate what makes sense, what makes us better. We learn from all airlines. It doesn't matter who they are. If they're doing something we can learn from, we will, but we do what makes sense for us. If another airline does whatever— It's not going to work. if it's good for them and not for us, we won't do it. We'll try to, I don't know, just make the right decisions. And for example, we announced internet, high-speed Starlink connectivity this year, but for the previous, let's say, 5 years, there are so many airlines around the world coming up with internet, and we had some Light internal pressure to implement our own internet, but we said no, it doesn't make sense. There's no good satellite coverage in Latin America. The service is very expensive and we do not need it to be successful, to be competitive. So because it's a trend in other parts of the world, it doesn't mean that it makes sense for us. But then came Starlink high-speed internet, and we were able to reach a very interesting agreement, which has since been announced by other airlines also. But we were kind of the first ones that were—

Michael Bell:When will that be system-wide?

Pedro Heilbron:What's that?

Michael Bell:When will that be implemented system-wide?

Pedro Heilbron:We're doing our own installations and we're doing like 3 or 4 per week. Actually, no, less. We're doing like 3 per week right now. It's going to take us until the second quarter of next year, second quarter 2027, until we have every aircraft with high-speed Starlink internet. But it's an amazing service. I'm sure some of you have used it. But I was traveling actually on United to Houston last week on Thursday, and next to me was sitting a person, a friend who's an early adopter in technology, who has all the gadgets, who was amazed that the Starlink internet on that aircraft was faster than what he has at home. So he actually decided and acted upon that decision to get Starlink at home.

Michael Bell:Well, there was no Wi-Fi on my flight down here yesterday.

Pedro Heilbron:No, no, it's still random because only right now we only have, I think, something like 4 or 5 planes.

Michael Bell:But I appreciate if you could have it for my flight home tomorrow.

Pedro Heilbron:It will happen eventually, but right now it's luck.

Michael Bell:My kids swear by it. United has it, and it's a great product. Where do you plan on deploying some of the aircraft that are growth-related from a network standpoint? Where do you see the growth opportunities for your network?

Pedro Heilbron:It's like everywhere. Because what we do is just one thing. We fly up and down the Americas, up and down a little bit east also. to the Caribbean, but it's kind of up and down. We fly everywhere. In addition, when we get planes, we add frequencies, we add new destinations. We're flying to 88 destinations. We're adding 2 more in the next few months. We will end the year with 90 destinations. That's what we do.

Michael Bell:The region's growing, right?

Pedro Heilbron:The region is growing. And there's always more people entering the middle class, and that is the traveling class. So yeah, and we do not grow— we do not grow faster. We try not to grow faster than demand. And we know that everybody else is growing also, so we have to take that into account. Because we're a bottom-line-oriented company. What matters most to our shareholders and our board is that we turn a profit, the profit they're expecting. We do not grow for the sake of growing. We grow based on what we can do with our single fleet going up and down the Americas. Since the continent has been growing, there have been good opportunities for us. This year we're growing more than normal, more than what we have grown any of the previous 3 years, but that is only because our Boeing deliveries were delayed since the pandemic. As Boeing has caught up with deliveries, then we've had more aircraft coming our way and our growth has sped up a little bit, but it's just catching up.

Michael Bell:How about the business model, Pedro? What I find remarkable about the Copa story is You look at the industry, we used to have a real bifurcation between full service and low cost. The majors in the US got their act together, got their costs down, now offer basic economy pricing like the LCs. There's been a real convergence, but your model's been incredibly constant. You seem to have almost a premium, not luxury, but a premium offering, but always with low cost.

Pedro Heilbron:Yes.

Michael Bell:Is that the model? Will it stay the model at Copa for the future?

Pedro Heilbron:I hope so because we are—

Michael Bell:It works.

Pedro Heilbron:We're so set on it. No, we actually, every so often we discuss our model and our strategy. At least once a year we have that debate. We think it's what fits our markets. It's hard to compare an airline against another or a region. It's impossible to compare one region versus the other. The reality in the US or in Europe is much different than the reality in Latin America. But it works for us for many reasons. One is that Panama is a small market. Actually, it's probably one of the smallest markets in Latin America in terms of population. We're a little bit— over 4 million people in the country. The income level is in the top tier, but it's Latin American, it's third world. It's not even close to the US, Europe, or Asia. The percent of the population that travels is going to be lower than in the rest of the world, and it's going to be more similar to other countries in our region. We know that that we're going to depend on connectivity, and we're going to be competing against other hubs, nonstop service, major carriers, everyone. So costs are going to be always important for us, and we need a product that passengers value and want to fly. So we try to combine everything that I think our part of the world needs, but we don't need a long-haul, fancy, expensive product because that has a cost, and who's going to pay for that?

Michael Bell:It's not your business.

Pedro Heilbron:It's not our business, and just a few people can afford that in our part of the world. So, so we need to also be conscious of that. So we think we have the model that works for us. It's not necessarily the model that works for everyone or that works for others.

Michael Bell:The industry in this region globally is consolidating, has consolidated. You look at Latin America, I mean, you've got ABRA, you've got LATAM, Aeroméxico, and you guys. There are a lot of other smaller players, but many of those have been gobbled up, right? Where does Copa feature in the landscape looking forward? Will you stay independent? Is there room there for a strong independent carrier like Copa? Like Copa, or how do you see that?

Pedro Heilbron:Yeah, well, we have the advantage. I mean, we've done things in the past. So in 1998, some of you maybe were not born, in 1998, we signed this innovative, unique alliance with Continental. No one had done anything like it. Before the time. They bought like half the company, but more importantly, the way we integrated so many things about the 2 airlines— lounges, OnePass, which was their frequent flyer program back then, service standards, livery. I mean—

Michael Bell:Even to this day, the Copa logo looks like the original Continental, right?

Pedro Heilbron:Still. Ours is a little bit nicer, but yes.

Michael Bell:Yeah.

Pedro Heilbron:To this day, we still have a very, very close alliance, commercial alliance with United, which bought Continental, even though there's no ownership because we went public in 2005 when Continental needed money to fund their pensions. So we went public and they were able to pay off their pension debt. But the commercial alliance remains and we have a very close relationship with United. But it was a very unique agreement that no one had done before and few have done up to now. And then in 2005, we bought a Colombian airline which became Copa Colombia and eventually became Wingo. which is our ULCC based in Bogotá, flying regionally and domestically. We've done things before, but we don't really have a need to do anything. We do not have a financial need, like the other way around. Commercially, we are fine with the great alliances we have. Star Alliance, which is the largest worldwide alliance, our special relationship with United, and we also have more point-to-point certain individual relationships with other carriers.

Michael Bell:Well, we want to talk a little bit about the product. You talked about Starlink. What are the other product or service innovations that you have done or that you see coming to remain competitive or get ahead of competition?

Pedro Heilbron:Right. So in a way, we can, and I see that, I say this proudly, in a way we can be kind of a boring airline because we do kind of the same thing over and over. We just try to do it better all the time, every day, but we're not like coming up with Just like new crazy stuff or like economy seats that become beds or stuff like that.

Michael Bell:The family suite.

Pedro Heilbron:Family suites and whatever. And we're not doing that kind of stuff. We're focused number one in our on-time performance. Been the most on-time airline in the Americas and one of the top in the world. We focus on that a lot of our effort. We develop a lot of our technology in-house because it's better for cost and also flexibility. So if you look at our app, early in the year we competed against 4 other really big airlines for like the best airline app. Our airline app, our app, which is Home developed has what our customers need, but it doesn't have half the bells and whistles you'll find at a United or a Delta. I think they have like the super top technology. We don't think we need to go all the way there, but we do need to have what our customers need, what's going to make their travel experience easy. and help them self-serve their needs. So we're not about— I mean, we've done things in the past, but we're not about every other month coming up with an innovative idea that makes headlines.

Michael Bell:That's not why the customer is coming to you.

Pedro Heilbron:No, they're coming to us Because we're reliable, because we're on time, because our crews are amazing. Our people in general do amazing things, but we don't advertise that. It's that. They, you know.

Michael Bell:Pedro, we can't leave this stage without talking about leadership. It's what I do for a living. You've demonstrated incredible leadership over 4 decades at Copa. How has your leadership evolved as a function of all the changes in the industry? It's incredible to hear about the constancy of focus that you have, but clearly you've also evolved as an executive. What would you say around that?

Pedro Heilbron:Well, that's not an easy question to answer because when I started in 1988, Don't make— don't do them. You can do the math. 1988, I was 30 years old. So it's been 38 years. So it's easy math. I'm 68 now. So I know I look like 67, but it's okay. And it's— we were so tiny and so small that if I had not evolved, I just wouldn't be here today because the company has evolved so much. Everything about the company has evolved. We still have a few people that go back to those days and they've had to evolve also, but most have since retired. We were 200 people in those days. We're over 9,000 today. We were 1.5 planes. We're whatever, 130 now. It's hard to compare. It's not apples to apples. But at the beginning, I was not so focused on people and I was a really bad communicator. So because I had never worked, I had only worked like this previous 7 years with formal jobs and it was just my boss and me and an assistant and I didn't have to deal with people. That boss, By the way, was then our chairman and is still our main shareholder. And I just like worked for one person my whole life. 2 companies, one person.

Michael Bell:That's incredible.

Pedro Heilbron:Yeah, I could be like Japanese.

Michael Bell:That's why you don't show your age.

Pedro Heilbron:What's that?

Michael Bell:That's why you don't show your age.

Pedro Heilbron:Oh, thank you. And so I would say the main Personal evolution for me has been paying a lot more attention to the people side of the business, but in that, I'm still a very imperfect leader, and I know that, and I recognize that, and I compensate that, I think, with other things, like working like 24/7. But otherwise, I'm very imperfect, so I'm not like a leadership professor.

Michael Bell:Pedro, it is incredible though. I mean, the one thing that I see is your focus and discipline as a leader. I remember when I first met you, it was actually at a Bobby Booth event, and we met. I don't remember what we were talking about, but you were scribbling notes on everything I was saying and filling in this paper meticulously. I'm thinking, even to this day, and I'm going to embarrass Pedro here, I emailed him overnight about speaking at another related event, and his response, which is in typical Pedro fashion, was, you know, Michael, I don't think— I'm going to have to pass. I'm too busy to be distracted with speaking engagements. First of all, thank you for coming today.

Pedro Heilbron:Well, you're in Panama, so—

Michael Bell:You're in Panama. The fact that at this stage in your history, you're focused on the Business, right, versus, oh, I want to get up on stage in some far-flung place and tell you about the great story of Copa, I think is a testament to what makes this company great. At some point, and we know you could probably go to 98, but the reins will get handed over. So how are you thinking about that? I'm not asking you to name dates or names or anything, but how are you thinking about how you replace someone who's been so iconic to the company?

Pedro Heilbron:Well, I do think of that, of course. I have to because now I am also the chairman of the company. I'm the executive chairman. So now it's kind of on me to worry about that. Before, it was Stanley Motta, who's still our remaining shareholder. And when he turned 80, he kind of delegated the chairman position to me.

Michael Bell:Oh.

Pedro Heilbron:How nice from Stanley. Then I'm driving home and say, how smart from Stanley. Now it's my burden. Of course, he's the main shareholder, so he's very involved in everything. I do think a lot about that. We will figure it out and it will work. I will remain involved as chairman. executive chairman for a while. I also have, and my family also has, ownership interests, so I'm tied to the company no matter what. To me, what's most important is that the company continues to perform very well. not only for its employees and its shareholders, but also for something you just said, that is very important for Panama. Copa is crucial for Panama. We're the largest, let's say, privately owned— because in the US, you say public company when it trades, but for us, public companies in Panama are government-owned. We're the largest non-government-owned company in the country. but we are also the largest contributor to the economy after the Panama Canal. The Panama Canal, of course, is like an amazing thing. Being second to the Panama Canal in contribution to the country, it's huge. We also carry that weight on our shoulders. It's not only about us, our shareholders, our employees, It's also a country that depends on international connectivity because this is a country whose economic model is about services and mainly international services. We're a hub for international services for the whole region, whatever that is, multinationals, commerce, logistics, finance, the works. That's what Panama— tourism is growing, it's booming. We're breaking all records. Panama is about that, and international connectivity is a big part of what makes Panama fly.

Michael Bell:Terrific. We're drawing towards when we need to close, but are there any questions in the audience for Pedro before we do that? Well, there's some on the screen here, so let me maybe take one of those. Do you see any issue with future growth by doing the same north-south without a domestic operation, which usually grows faster? I guess you don't have much of a domestic operation to work with, right?

Pedro Heilbron:We have one domestic route in Panama only, and we have to adjust to that. As long as Latin America continues to grow and we manage capacity accordingly, we feel that we can continue being successful in the future. Because there's been periods of time, like from 1998 to 2019, it was a tough— sorry, it was a tough period for Latin America. The economies were like negative growth and there were recessions everywhere. We grew very little. Actually, our fleet did not grow, but we still had double-digit operating margins during those 5 years. That was up until 2019. Then in 2019, we thought everything was going to be great. Then you know what came after.

Michael Bell:You know what came after.

Pedro Heilbron:As long as we can adjust and we can be realistic about the continent we're in, we're very optimistic and bullish.

Michael Bell:One of the questions is, what is the main future challenge you see for Copa? It's clearly been a great story. You've overcome what's come your way, but what is keeping you up at night?

Pedro Heilbron:Everything. Well, actually, no, I sleep well. The only thing that keeps me up is when there's an outside factor that even though we do not control, it only affects us. Fuel does not keep me up at night.

Michael Bell:It affects everybody.

Pedro Heilbron:Because it affects everyone, and as long as we run our things in the best possible way, we should be fine. Running our things in the best possible way means many, many things. But if there's a situation, you know, in aviation, we have to deal with every crisis you can think of, and then we also have to deal with politics. An infrastructure we do not control, and things like that. Is there something we do not control that is only affecting us? If we're growing and the airport is not building the right infrastructure, then that's a real worry. Otherwise, I sleep well, and our challenges are similar to everyone else.

Michael Bell:I appreciate that. I couldn't let the opportunity pass without telling a quick story, which I think epitomizes the way Pedro approaches things. Many years ago, we recognized Pedro with the Airline Leadership Award in the airline business in London. I think he forgot it was black tie, had his daughter go to the airport, bring the tuxedo to the airport, and then he lands in London and he texts me and he goes, this is black tie, right? I go, No, Pedro, it's not black tie. The only thing he had was his tuxedo to come to this non-black tie event. Well, of course, he goes out to buy a new suit and comes to the event and the suit looked great. Then he proudly shares that he went to Marks& Spencer, spent £99 on the suit, not more. Reflective of the fact that you do what is necessary and not dwell on luxuries, you're You run an incredible business, Pedro. I would say, you mentioned that you might have to wear shades, but the lights were shining on you here. The reason you probably have to wear shades is because the future is going to be incredibly bright at Copa.

Pedro Heilbron:Let's hope so. No, the shades joke, to be very honest, is, it's dark, but I forgot my shades. That joke is that There's this great movie from the '80s, from 1980, that's called The Blues Brothers. And our CIO, Julio Toro, is here somewhere, and he's a great saxophone player, so I'm sure he's seen it. But it's now on Netflix, so during the weekend, I just see that The Blues Brothers is on Netflix, and so I watched it again. Oh, that's great. And it's John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd, so you can't— it doesn't get better than that. And there's a part in the movie at the end where they need to escape from everyone that's chasing them after this concert they just gave. And they're like planning their escape. They're in the car and one tells the other, we have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses and boom, they take off. So you have to see the movie. It's highly recommended.

Michael Bell:It's a classic.

Pedro Heilbron:It's a classic if you like that kind of comedy, but especially if you like amazing music from the past, because the cameos in that movie are incredible. But what were we talking about? I went off the tangent. So the suit—

Michael Bell:Pedro, I just want to tell you, it's not on your in-flight entertainment system, so please make sure you add that, the movie.

Pedro Heilbron:But you can download it if you get a Copa plane with Starlink. You can stream it really fast.

Michael Bell:Tomorrow.

Pedro Heilbron:And you can download with your Netflix account and watch it at the same speed or better than at home. But I think about the suit story, you missed a little part. You didn't miss it, you got it right, but luck, it's always good to be lucky. So, you know, we could spend hours here telling you all the times I've been lucky in the past, but that's one example. Actually, the reason I found out it was not with tuxedo, because I was convinced that I needed a tuxedo and I had left it at home. So actually, not that I left it at home because I didn't bring a suit. I left the top part. I had my pants packed and everything.

Michael Bell:Oh, okay.

Pedro Heilbron:Just, I had the tie, the whole thing. So my daughter just had to rush to the airport and got me what I had left behind. So when I chatted you or called you that morning from the hotel in London just to tell you I'm here, just as a by the way, I tell you, by the way, I almost left my tux behind.

Michael Bell:And had you not said that—

Pedro Heilbron:And then if I had not said that, and then you said, what tux? This is not with a tux. Then I ran to Marks& Spencer and they had my exact size.

Michael Bell:Perfect.

Pedro Heilbron:Even they didn't have to like, how do you call that?

Michael Bell:Hem it.

Pedro Heilbron:Yeah, it was just everything was perfect and it was finished and it came with like a shirt or something. So, and I've used it that time and a second time. I haven't used it a third time because I'm waiting for another award.

Michael Bell:Yes, we're gonna get there. Well, we are at time. But it's clear to me that it goes way beyond luck as to the incredible leadership and success at Copa. So please join me in thanking Pedro for his, his great time with us today. Thank you.

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