Airline Leader Interview Avelo CEO Andrew Levy

Transcript

Michael Bell:Well, delighted to be on stage here with a good longtime friend and acquaintance in the industry, Andrew Levy. Andrew is the founder, chairman, and CEO of Avelo Airlines. We're here to talk about the Avelo story. I think it's particularly notable because we've tried many times to get Andrew to come and speak, and this is the first to my knowledge that he's agreed to do so. He kept saying, you know what, let us, let us get our story a little more developed before we come and do that. So now there's something to say, right?

Andrew Levy:So, well, we'll see, I guess. We'll see. But, but I, I, I, uh, you are an old friend, Michael, and we've worked together for many years. I, I got tired of saying no to you, so here I am. Exactly.

Michael Bell:Thank you for doing it. A little bit of back background to both Andrew and to Avelo, and then we're going to get into the discussion about what's going on. It's a great airline. We serve Andrew and his organization as a client, and we're very proud to do so. So what is Avelo? It's a low-fare, high-value carrier focused on underserved routes, primarily secondary airports, avoiding direct competition with, with the larger major carriers. Founded in 2021, and just a few weeks ago 5th anniversary, right?

Andrew Levy:Yep.

Michael Bell:Happy birthday.

Andrew Levy:Thank you.

Michael Bell:Yeah, that's a milestone to get that far, right, for an airline.

Andrew Levy:So it is indeed.

Michael Bell:Yeah, so well done.

Andrew Levy:Thank you.

Michael Bell:16 next-gen Boeing 737s, but I think the bigger story— and we've got Embraer here, so we'll be talking about that— is you placed an order for 50 plus purchase rights on another 50 of the E2. That's a game changer for you guys, so we're gonna want to get into that. 4 bases: New Haven, Connecticut; Philadelphia, Delaware Valley; Charlotte-Concord— you'll notice all this little slash here because these are the secondary airports to those markets, of course New Haven being for the greater New York area— Central Florida Lakeland; and coming later this year, Dallas McKinney. Headquarters in Houston. And you guys went through a recapitalization, bit of a kind of a focus back on the core on your fleet and network, which we're going to go— Yeah. Get into as well. So a little bit about Andrew before we get into the discussion. Over 30 years in industry, Andrew's got an amazing history. He actually— it dates back to ValuJet with Maury Gallagher, and then of course he was one of the founders of Allegiant, CFO, president, COO there. I mean, played a key role in making Allegiant what it is today. We'll have Greg Anderson here on stage tomorrow, and he has continued with that Great legacy that Andrew put in place. Went from there to actually try to get the startup going. It was still under his non-compete, so he ended up going to United. Saw an ad for their academy as CFO, but then came back to his dream and then launched Avelo several years ago, and here we are today. He's, you know, got an undergraduate Washington University and legal degree. I've always said lawyers make great airline CEOs. You're Clearly proved the case, but also an active board director. He's on the board of AerSale, where I am in Miami, and Copa Airlines, which is another tremendously successful carrier. So obviously a storied background, but more exciting future to come. So let's start with Avelo, the business model. I think the whole notion was to create an airline that made traveler— travel simpler, not only more affordable, but more convenient, more caring. Tell us a little bit about that. What was the genesis? Why did you pick that, if that is the case, as the business model, as the focus of the airline, Andrew? Sure.

Andrew Levy:Look, when we started raising capital to do what we're doing, this was before COVID You have to go back to that world, which is a very different world than the world that we're in. At the time, our view was that number one is that you have to do something different. To be successful in the airline sector, you have to find your niche. Hopefully it's a big one, but you have to do something different. And what we felt was missing was an opportunity to do something that we observed when we were at Allegiant, where when I was at Allegiant, we built up a lot of secondary airports, but they were mostly destination airports. It was Orlando Sanford, St. Pete Clearwater, Phoenix Mesa, Punta Gorda. There was nothing—

Michael Bell:Secondary markets to those cities.

Andrew Levy:Those were kind of receptacles, right? They were small city USA to these big vacation spots, but we went into the secondary airport. And that's been massively successful for Allegiant. These airports had nothing going on, and then all of a sudden there's, you know, you look at it now and it's just filled with life. But we always thought back then that the real interesting opportunity would be to take the people that live in those areas and allow them to access leaving those communities from a secondary airport. and enjoying the amazing convenience that you get from traveling in and out of a small airport that is convenient to a lot of people. And that's what we've done with Avelo. So our focus is secondary airports in big metro areas. And the 4 that you mentioned, and the 5th one being McKinney, are places that are easily accessible to millions of people. And we're just trying to—

Michael Bell:So take New Haven as an example. What is the catchment area for New Haven? What's the market you're trying to go after there? Because that's your biggest base.

Andrew Levy:Sure. Well, New Haven's our biggest base. Space today, but I don't think it's necessarily our biggest opportunity in the long term. But we'll see over time. But New Haven, the majority of the people that were traveling out of New Haven before we went in there were going to LaGuardia. Okay, that's by far and away the biggest spill, were people getting in the car and driving to LaGuardia or JFK, and some smaller number to White Plains, some smaller number to Bradley. The state of Connecticut has, I think, about 3.5 million people. We draw from the entire state of Connecticut. Obviously, we draw more people that are closer to New Haven, and the further away you get, the less, you know, the smaller the percentages of the people who get on our airplanes. But we are in a— that's a unique opportunity because while I view it as a secondary airport of the New York metro area because of what I mentioned, I don't think most people would view it that way. But New Haven has been a very successful Run so far, it is we have seven eight airplanes dedicated in New Haven. We're carrying close to a million people a year out of that place, and before we were there, I think American had one flight a day on a small RJ down to Charlotte or Philly for connection. That was all that was there. So it's a it's a dramatically different environment now, and and we're very pleased with with where it is. I think what we're doing in Wilmington, Charlotte, Lakeland, and soon McKinney is. Those are a little more similar to one another where you have this massive metropolitan area filled with people and we're accessing those people, not necessarily all of them, right? We're in Wilmington. We're probably not getting Bucks County. If you're north of Philly, you're probably more likely to go to Trenton and you're probably not gonna drive past Philadelphia International, although you might, 'cause it's not that much farther. But regardless, we have access to 2 to 3 million people depending on how you define the catchment area, in Wilmington, as an example. New Haven, I think it's about 2, honestly. Maybe it's a little more, maybe it's a little less. Lakeland's even bigger.

Michael Bell:The DFW area has 2 airports already. Are they both pretty much congested? It does.

Andrew Levy:Well, I mean, look, McKinney is— McKinney would— and look, McKinney is going to start up later this year, and so we're very bullish on it, but obviously time will tell. But the Dallas Metroplex is soon going to be the 3rd largest metropolitan area in the country, and the 4th largest will soon be Houston. These are places that the growth is endless. Both cities are approaching 8 million people in the broader metro area. There's a lot of people.

Michael Bell:You don't need a big amount of that to be successful.

Andrew Levy:We're talking about a handful of airplanes. We're not building DFW up in McKinney or Love Field. That's the beauty of it too. That's why it's so welcomed by customers. That's why people love it so much because you can park your car, Walk a few feet, you go through TSA, you're on the airplane, you're gone. It's an incredible experience.

Michael Bell:It's almost an FBO.

Andrew Levy:Yeah, look, it's actually quite similar to what JSX is doing in some ways. Different market, right? They're going after a smaller, narrower market that's a higher-end market offering a different product, but it's a lot of the same thing. It's leaning into convenience. Of course, everyday low fares is critical for us, for our business to work.

Michael Bell:How have you had to adapt the model in those 5 years? What in terms of— this is a Dynamic industry, you know, we've seen Spirit go out of business, Sun Country just got bought by your former employer. It's a rapidly changing business, pressures on the business, right? So what, what changes have you made to the business model?

Andrew Levy:Um, look, we're, we're— there's probably a few things that I, that I could think of off the bat. We've embraced distribution. We've brought on Expedia. That's actually proven to be more valuable than I thought it would be. I've always resisted having third-party distribution. Allegiant to this day doesn't have it. We had none of that at ValuJet either, but we have embraced Expedia and that's off to a good start. It's not a game changer, but it helps. I think that maybe to get to the bigger issue is the world has changed post-COVID. To me, In my 32 years of doing this, I started in 1994, literally 32 years and maybe a week to the day. COVID by far has had the, by far, like exponentially the biggest impact on our industry in that time.

Michael Bell:Why?

Andrew Levy:By far. Well, I think that quite honestly, I think it comes down to the taxpayers. Most of us in this room, any of those of you in this room that are US citizens, our government, gave the airline sector, based on size and scale, billions and billions and billions of dollars in the name of keeping employment stable. Without getting into all the nuances, there was a huge benefit that came from that. Then there was basically free money given out by the Fed and Treasury to help the airline sector. The larger airlines got stronger than they've ever been. That's what they are. They're stronger than they've ever been. The loyalty programs generate over 100% of their profits, each and every single one, industry-wide, including the biggest carriers. The game is totally, totally changed as a result of having all that capital. The business cycle ended because of a pandemic. Nobody had that on the bingo card, but the business cycles end. Instead of a business cycle ending and having to make tough decisions and shrink and restructure or things like that— It was pretty bad. I don't mean bankruptcy. Exactly. It was the shortest end of a business cycle that we've ever seen in the history of our country, probably, at least in the last 100 years. What happened is that these airlines got— the big airlines got the benefit of that. They got massive amounts of capital. All of a sudden, they could finance everything for free. Now they're stronger than they've ever been. That's forced all the other airlines to try to figure out, how do we find our way? Because in the decade before, everybody was making money. Everybody was covering their cost of capital. And now—

Michael Bell:and there was also a big separation between legacy and LCCs, right?

Andrew Levy:Absolutely. Everybody was doing well, but LCCs were doing better than the legacies, but everybody was doing well. Post-COVID, now you have a very bifurcated industry, and that's why we're seeing a lot of strain. You know, some are doing quite well, some are doing okay, and some are trying to find their way. And that story remains to be played out.

Michael Bell:What does that mean? I mean, you're walking and You're in the land of the giants, right? I mean, they conceivably could squash you if they decided to turn their guns. You're not on their territory, maybe, right? But you're kind of nibbling at it, right? Especially in these markets. How do you survive in that world, Andrew?

Andrew Levy:What's that? Well, I think, I think number one is what we've done at Avelo is the same thing we did at Allegiant, which is we try to do something different, and we're not looking to go compete with anybody. And I think Look, I never have had much appreciation or really taste for the business model that Spirit operated, with all due respect to the people at Spirit. I just never liked it because, you know, a spill carrier, you are living off of what you are allowed to take, you know? And when the legacies got strong enough and they decided enough's enough, well, that was the end of that, right? And it took a long time for them to actually go away, but that's a big part of it, right? At Allegiant, we did something completely different. That's what we're doing at Avelo. We're doing something different. It's different than Allegiant. That space is occupied. Our space here is to do something unique and different. We're not trying to compete for the hub. We're not trying to compete for a hub. We're not building DFW in Wilmington, Delaware. Maybe one day we can have 5 or 6 airplanes there.

Michael Bell:You're not going for the high-yield business traveler.

Andrew Levy:We're not going for the high-yield business traveler. We can't win at that game. I think it starts there, is playing to your strengths. Our strengths are we have the lowest costs in the sector because we're extremely efficient and we've designed the business to be really low cost. That's critical because that's table stakes. We offer this really, really convenient and different experience, which starts with the airport. We have a very simple product. It's just, it's, I kind of call it a back-to-basics approach. It's kind of a little bit like the old Southwest Airlines. It's, it's on time, reliable, and treat people nicely. That's it, right? And if you do those things again and again and again and again, it's incredible how loyal customers will become, especially when you offer something that's unique and different like we do with our base airports that we serve. And so, so that's working, that's working well, and we're really encouraged by it.

Michael Bell:Just hold that for a minute. You mentioned like it's fairly simple. You have 3 different types of seats. You've recently added a loyalty program. You've announced a new credit card. So are those increasing complexity or are they just value adds for your customer?

Andrew Levy:No, I don't think so. I mean, we don't have 3 different types of seats. I mean, to be clear, and I know you don't mean that. I mean, we have literally the seats are the seats are the seats. It's just different pitch. The pitch. Sorry. And so we've had since day one a product that's very similar to what Southwest has evolved to. Southwest has— I don't know, I describe it as good, better, best. But it's 3 by 3. They just have more pitch in the front, then the middle is a little less, and the back's a little less. We've had that since day one. I think we've done a pretty poor job of adapting.

Michael Bell:So you just used the learning curve to go straight to—

Andrew Levy:Yeah, that's right. They copied us because they saw how great we were doing. No, but look, I mean, so I don't think that's difficult at all. And this is what we did at Allegiant. We sold seat assignments in advance to people who wanted to do that. And it was like we just had this aha moment in 2003 when we started that. And it was like, next thing you know, we're picking up $3 from every single customer all of a sudden doing something that had been for free. And that was the beginning of what we did at Allegiant where we unbundled everything, similar to what has been done in other parts of the world. So we're doing that here. I don't view that as complicated. The credit card is a value-add service. If you choose to get it, then you get a free carry-on bag. You get free priority boarding. You get points that could be used. It turns into Avelo Cash, could be used for travel on Avelo. Then we have a subscription product, which is a recurring revenue product, which is kind of a discount club. We're going to make it into more than that, but essentially that's our version of an Amazon Prime. Not that unfortunately we'll never be as useful to people's everyday life as Amazon, but that would be nice if we ever could be.

Michael Bell:Tap into their 125 million subscribers.

Andrew Levy:There you go. Yeah, that would be nice.

Michael Bell:Andrew, let's go back a little bit to what you were talking about. Let's talk about your route network. You mentioned the 4, now soon to be 5 bases, right? Picking up traffic from those large metro areas using the more convenient airports. And remember when we first started working with Allegiant, they explained there was something like 400 different routes they could conceivably serve on that secondary market to big leisure destination. How many more bases are there? Fast forward the film here for you guys. What's that look like in 5, 10 years?

Andrew Levy:Well, I think You know, look, we'll see. I think in 5 years, I think we'll have a couple more, and I think we're just going to scale the ones that we're in. We're in some pretty big locations, and the next one is going to be quite big, and we've got in mind what the 6th one will be. A lot of these— some of these are kind of ready to go, and some of these are kind of longer-term projects that require capital. and regulatory work and things of that nature. There are other opportunities around the US, but not every city or every major metro area has an airport that would be viable. Like, for instance, I haven't found one in Chicago yet, as much as I'd like to. There's a couple ideas out there, but none of them are easy. So these take a lot of time to actually try to figure out, okay, which ones are real and viable. But I don't believe in hypergrowth. That's one of the lessons I took from our experience at ValuJet.

Michael Bell:Be careful.

Andrew Levy:We are the tortoise. We're slow and steady. We're a growth company. We went backwards last— well, at the beginning of this year in order to simplify our business, raise capital, which was very fortuitous because that's put us in a terrific position to deal with this dramatic spike in fuel. We're the tortoise and we got tons and tons of growth. What I used to say at Allegiant, I'll say here, although we're not at the same place as Allegiant was when I used to say this, is that if you have the lowest cost, you have a very strong balance sheet, you will always have opportunities. Allegiant is now 25 years after we took it out of bankruptcy, almost next month it'll be 25 years, and they are continuing to find opportunities because they've kept to that. Copa is the same thing where I've been on the board for— this is year 11 there. They're a phenomenal company, but the Big thing they do is they make money consistently and they have a phenomenal balance sheet.

Michael Bell:Great discipline.

Andrew Levy:They're slow and conservative. They're the tortoise. We're the tortoise. We don't have the balance sheet yet. That's what we're working on is to get to the point where we have the consistent levels of profitability, have a tremendous balance sheet, and then have slow, steady growth. As long as we do those things, we'll have amazing opportunity.

Michael Bell:You mentioned the product. I think your on-time performance is pretty good too.

Andrew Levy:Yeah, we're number 1 in the US. We were number 1 in, let's see, we were number 1 in 2013. No, we were number 2 in '23. We were number 1 going into December. Delta squeaked past us. '24, we were number 1 in the US. '25, we were just second to Delta again. This year, we're kind of toward the top third. We're inching our way up. We're number 1 this May. That's been a big focus of ours, is running really reliable operations. Especially for the Gulfstream.

Michael Bell:Sometimes the perception is they don't operate on time or cancel flights.

Andrew Levy:We operate on time. That's in our DNA. It's critical to what we do. We are I think it's really important to customers. Whether it's Avelo, whether it's United, whether it's Copa, the single biggest driver to customer satisfaction is on-time performance. That's it. That is the single most important thing. It's not the only thing, but it is the most important thing. We take that very seriously. I have a team of operating leaders, operations leaders that are really second to none and people that have worked at the household name big airlines, and they're outstanding in what they do, and I try to support them everywhere I can.

Michael Bell:All right, so let's talk about the E2, right? Why did you choose that airplane?

Andrew Levy:Sure.

Michael Bell:And how does that airplane enable this growth? How do you plan on deploying it?

Andrew Levy:So, you know, the E2 is— we think it's a really, really, really exciting airplane. First of all, and I know Martin's here from Embraer, and I think I told Martin, But I've told others that they made a mistake in naming it the way they did, because I think most people still think of it as a regional jet. This is not a regional jet. It's a mainline narrowbody airplane. At ValueJet, we were flying DC-9s with 115 seats. Now, all of a sudden, for a 140-seat airplane to be viewed as small, it tells you a little bit just, I guess, how the world has evolved. I don't view a 140-seat airplane as a small airplane. It's a mainline narrowbody airplane. It's going to have the best cabin. In the United States. It's going to have a 2x2 configuration. It's a phenomenal airplane. It's got full-size bins. It doesn't have the space bins that you knock your head on every time.

Michael Bell:I flew it last week on Porter. I needed binoculars just to see the back of the airplane. It's a big airplane.

Andrew Levy:It is long. It's actually longer than a 737-800. It is a long airplane, but it's a fabulous airplane. It sips fuel. It has amazing operating performance on short runways. It's 10,000 pounds lighter than an A220. Those are some of the things that we really like about the airplane. What it's going to do for us, it's going to allow us to offer— we're in the shadow of a lot of hubs, like Philadelphia International, DFW, 2 such examples, Charlotte. American in each of those cases, but the same holds true for Delta or United. They've gotten so much stronger in the last 10 years, especially with COVID They've added more frequency. bigger airplanes. And so to be kind of nearby there, I think you have to offer some level of utility, and that, that, aka frequency, you know. So you can't just fly twice a week and gain much of a following. And so that's one of the things that we're learning as we've evolving our business. And, and so this airplane is going to allow us to offer more frequency with lower trip costs, offer a tremendous product to our customers. That's the one area that we've Clearly today are very bare bones. We don't think that's bad, but the product for the E2 is going to be, I think, outstanding. It's really more about hardcore airplane economics.

Michael Bell:It's less around allowing you to open different kind of markets, but more around allowing you to better serve markets that you're serving.

Andrew Levy:I think it's going to be a combination of the two, Michael. Certainly, look, if we had that airplane today, we would start McKinney with nothing but E2s because it's a lower trip cost airplane, which lowers the risk of starting new markets, you know, because we're going to go into a new market just like every other one we've gone into where nobody knows Avelo. And in this case, it's going to be an airport nobody's flown out of in the past commercially, right? So that has a different level of risk, and it takes longer to build those out. That's one of the things that we've learned is just that it requires just a lot of patience and a lot of capital to do this. And that's one of the lessons learned so far is just I always kept thinking we had plenty of cash, and I've been wrong every time. Now, once you get to the point where you have that awareness and it's working, then you've got something that's really defensible. That's why we like our strategy. We like our business model, but it takes time. It's an investment of time and effort. Yeah, look, the E2 we think is going to be really, really powerful for our business, both for Continue to grow into the existing bases we're in, but then also expanding into new bases. I should say we do plan to fly the 800 alongside the E2. We'll see if we do that long-term or not. I mean, one aircraft type is easier than 2.

Michael Bell:What's the timeline on getting to 50 airplanes?

Andrew Levy:Let's see, 2033 would be all 50 delivered by then.

Michael Bell:Okay, so you've got some time. I'm just trying to reconcile the Tortoise with 50 new airplanes coming.

Andrew Levy:Yeah, but yeah, it's, it's, uh, you know, we have 16 today, so if we were doing 10 a year on 16, that's a different number than if you're doing 10 on 35 or 40, right? It's just, it's different.

Michael Bell:And, and it allows you to boost the frequencies versus have to continue to open new markets, right?

Andrew Levy:Right, right.

Michael Bell:Andrew, can't leave this session without talking about leadership, and you started this carrier with a clear set of values. Safety always, keep it simple, we've talked about that, do the right thing in one crew. Just elaborate on those. Why did you pick those values and how do you as the CEO, as the culture leader, live those out?

Andrew Levy:Well, I think we picked them because they're really, you know, I, let's see, there was a number of us that worked together to do this, so I don't want this to sound like this was— these are Andrew's ideas. But clearly, I had a lot of—

Michael Bell:You didn't go to the mountain and they came down on a tablet.

Andrew Levy:No, but I had a lot of influence, right? I mean, without a doubt.

Michael Bell:So these are all things— Veto power.

Andrew Levy:These are all things I believe in, you know, and I assembled a group of people, many of whom I'd worked with before, who also share those values. And so, you know, we coalesced around these 4. And look, I think that it's, you know, Safety always. I mean, you know, there's nothing more important. And quite honestly, you know, I mean, we talked about the start of my career at ValuJet. Well, the thing that I remember and will forever, forever—

Michael Bell:That stays with you, right?

Andrew Levy:Yeah, May 11th, 1996, when we had an accident and lost 110 people, right? It was not that long ago. I mean, it feels like, feels like forever ago in some ways, yet, you know, I was in Miami on that day and it, you know, it's, Every time I'm there, I remember it, right? I don't ever want to experience that again. We invest in safety. We have every possible tool you could ever imagine. We have the leader, former VP of safety from United who held that position at Delta. He's our VP of safety, Michael Coelho. Keep it simple is something we believed in at ValuJet. We believe in it at Allegiant. We believe in it at Avelo, which is just we're not trying to be everything to everybody. I like to use Raising Cane's as an example. Don't go there for hamburger or steak. It's chicken. That's all they do. When you do just very few things, you have a chance of doing them really well. It's easier to be very focused on serving a subsector of the marketplace than try to be everything to everybody. We're very focused on keeping it simple. Doing the right thing is about— it's not about integrity. It's really about transparency, honesty, openness, being an always learning organization, always wanting to get better. You can't get better if you're not willing to look at yourself and admit when you've made mistakes. as an example. Then one crew is about teamwork. To me, an airline is the ultimate team sport. It's one of the most complicated businesses that I can imagine. I mean, I haven't been in a lot of industries, but it's a very complicated one. I know that much. It requires tremendous coordination to do things that we do each and every day. We make it look simple to customers most of the time, but it's an enormous effort that goes on in the background. That's what we believe in. Those are the values that we live. I can only set them in motion and guide them, encourage them, and foster them. At the end of the day, culture comes from everybody. It's not my culture. It's the organization's culture. I do think that we live our values. It's something that's very important to me. I think it's something that's very important to all of our crew members.

Michael Bell:That's terrific. We got 2 minutes left. I do have another question or 2, but are there any questions in the audience for Andrew? anything on Slido. It's hard to see out there, but—

Andrew Levy:Yeah, I can't see anything.

Michael Bell:There's one here at the front, please.

Andrew Levy:Andrew, you know, obviously the secondary markets, operating in secondary markets provides a lot of opportunity, but does that also provide a lot of challenges with the lack of, sometimes the lack of infrastructure in smaller airports? You know, I don't think of that as the biggest challenge. I'll be honest with you, the biggest challenge is Google Flights. Google Flights is an impediment that we need to overcome. Google Flights is so powerful, and they will steer you to what the searches suggest people are interested in. But it's the ultimate chicken or the egg thing. You know, if they don't know that an airport's there, then how are they going to steer you there, right? So it's all algorithmically driven by search. And so even to this day, I think if you search New Haven, you will see Bradley. If you search Bradley, you will not see New Haven. And if you do that for Charlotte, you will certainly not see Concord. You do that for LA, you do that for, uh, Tampa, you will not see Lakeland. Now, I mean, some of this may have changed as more and more people search, but I'm pretty sure those things are all still true. So Google Flights is actually probably the biggest impediment, much more so than infrastructure. Infrastructure is money and will. Now, if an airport isn't interested or a community's not interested, then life's too short. You know, I mean, there's just too many other places that are interested. But then it's about money. And if Not that money's easy, but, you know, that's usually a lot easier than getting government to be supportive or not. That's much more difficult to do.

Michael Bell:And tomorrow morning, actually, in the sister conference next door at Global Airport Development, Andrew will be on stage with Mark Ricks of AvPorts talking about airline-airport partnership and how they're addressing the infrastructure issues in New Haven. So that'll be for those of you interested in that topic. Well, we are at time, so I do really want to thank you, Andrew, for finally coming out and telling the Avelo story. It's a great story. You deserve a lot of credit, you and your one team, for getting this far, and we wish you all only the best going forward.

Andrew Levy:Please join me in thanking Andrew for his time today. Thanks very much.

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