TRANSCRIPT: INTERVIEW WITH ABC RN BREAKFAST, 30 JUNE 2020

Subjects: Cyber Security, Australia's Aviation Industry, Coronavirus;

NORMAN SWAN

Australia's grounded aviation industry is bracing for more bad news with new owners of Virgin expected to slash thousands of workers, maybe even half its work force. The job losses could be settled as early as this week when management meets Virgin's likely new owners, Bain Capital, to discuss the future of the slimmed down carrier. Rival Qantas has already sacked 6,000 workers amid gloomy predictions that the global airline sector is unlikely to recover from the corona-crisis for at least three years. Michael McCormack is Deputy Prime Minister and Transport Minister. Welcome back to Breakfast, Deputy Prime Minister.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Good morning, Norman.

NORMAN SWAN

Before we get to aviation, could I ask you about this billion dollar boost to our cyber defences? I mean the question everybody's asking is this aimed at China?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, it's aimed at making sure we've got the right cyber security measures in place for the nation in the national interest. That's what it's aimed at making sure that we've got the cyber security capabilities, that we can identify more cyber threats, disrupt more foreign cyber criminals, build more partnerships with industry and Government and protect more Australians. That's what it's aimed at - $1.35 billion over the next decade. On top of, of course, the arrangements and investments we've put in place in the past and they have been significant.

NORMAN SWAN

How long's this been in the making? I asked this question of our guest before the 7.00am news, how long has this been in the making given that -

MICHAEL McCORMACK

These things are discussed at the highest level of Government all the time, Norman, as you would expect. I mean cyber security is one of those real issues that, you know, we have to, of course, take very seriously and the Federal Government, of course, as you would expect, is and always has.

NORMAN SWAN

And to what extent do you have the structure in place to bring all this together given, as you quite rightly said, it's criminals, it's cyber-attacks, it's offensive activities as well. So it goes across a lot of agencies.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

It does and that's why we work very closely with business, with Local Government, with State Governments, indeed, through the Australian Signals Directorate, the Australian Cyber Security Centre, of course, the Ministers who are responsible for this, Peter Dutton and Linda Reynolds, take their roles very seriously and of course cyber security is centre of everything that the Federal Government does in this regard and of course, we need to be able to identify more cyber threats and that's what we're doing. We need to be able to make sure that we've got the right measures in place for the security of all Australians. Anybody who clicks on a computer and goes onto the internet, right through to the top levels of Government, we need to make sure that their data and their information is secure.

NORMAN SWAN

Is this investment an admission that we needed to play catch up?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

No, this is a wise and sensible and prudent investment at a time when, of course, it's not just Australia - countries all over the world are making sure they've got the right measures in place.

NORMAN SWAN

Now, 6,000 jobs last week were culled by Qantas, moving to aviation and your ministerial responsibility. The word is that it could be up to 5,000 jobs this week by Virgin, at least the proposed new owners of Virgin, shouldn't you be stepping in to try and save some of these?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, we're making sure that, of course, with JobKeeper, that that goes until September 30, as we've always said, at the end of September and we're assessing these situations. COVID-19, of course, is a developing situation every day. I mean we've got a recent spike in Victoria, that's unfortunate, Australians need to continue to be their best selves. What we want to see is planes back in the air. That's the first thing that's going to enable airports to, of course, get their business activities back in place. That's going to help the bottom lines of all the airlines that fly proudly around our skies. We need those border restrictions to be eased and lifted, we need planes back in the sky and that's what we're working towards.

NORMAN SWAN

But you're not necessarily dealing evenly with the industry. I mean you've had direct support for the regional airline Rex and the Financial Review today suggests that Rex is now interloping and stealing business on the lucrative Sydney-Brisbane-Melbourne route?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Let's not forget that Rex fly to 35 communities that only they service. Let's not forget that without the support that we provided regional communities and let's face it, airlines that fly to those communities, 138 of them in total, many of those communities would have been left completely high and dry. So they wouldn't have been getting frontline medical personnel, personal protection equipment, face masks, respiratory equipment, they would have just been left to their own devices and they wouldn't have been able to have those valuable medical support and assistance provided to them but for the likes of Rex and at least a dozen other airlines as well, flying to them, making sure that they drop off the equipment, making sure that even the Royal Flying Doctor Service has received assistance through those regional programs that I put in place.

NORMAN SWAN

But you're not worried that they're using your money to set themselves up as being a major competitor to the other two airlines?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

We want all airlines to be commercially competitive and commercially viable and that's why we've put in place more than $1.3 billion of assistance and if you look at what we've been able to do and compare it to say Europe, for example, where many, many airlines have just gone to the wall, you know, they're facing bankruptcy and we've been able to at least keep our planes in the air, whether it's through the International Air Freight Mechanism to get our best food and fibre to markets, whether it's through the domestic airline network support or whether it's through the regional airline network services that have now been extended to the end of the year.

I'm quite proud of what we've been able to do and the fact that we have supported those communities, particularly those communities in rural and remote Australia which would otherwise not have been seeing any planes in the air and none of the medical support they so desperately would have required through COVID-19.

NORMAN SWAN

So what extent are the airlines going to be taken into account, or have been, in the review of JobKeeper? Could it be extended for airline workers? Airlines are pleading for it beyond the end of September.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Norman, everybody's pleading for it. I appreciate also, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, we need to get people back into work and back into work sooner. There's many businesses which are struggling to actually find people to actually fill the vacancies, indeed the Regional Australia Institute has today, with their quarterly regional jobs update, that there were 30,000 vacancies in May. In real-time that's 8,000 new jobs that have been realised in May. That's because, of course, the rain and agriculture is stepping back up after years of drought in many areas and so that's a good thing. But there are jobs, there are vacancies out there, we need people to fill those job vacancies, it's not all doom and gloom. I'm quite optimistic and hopeful and confident about the future of regional Australia, notwithstanding, of course, we've gone through a horror summer, we've gone through a dreadful drought and of course, COVID-19 has been very restrictive for many businesses which have had to shut their doors.

NORMAN SWAN

So do you agree with the Prime Minister who wasn't quite saying we've got dole bludgers now because of JobSeeker supplements but -

MICHAEL McCORMACK

No, he certainly wasn't. No, but what he was saying was that we need to reconnect some of those people who have been very well supported through JobKeeper and if their job is back and up and running and their business has got its doors open, they need to return to work and that's the point he was making. There are many, many people in that regard but of course, at the same time there are many people who still, but for JobKeeper, you know, their business would be very much struggling and we need to support those. We are looking at what we need to do and as I say, it's an evolving situation. It changes not by the day but almost by the hour and of course, COVID-19 we're certainly a long way from getting through it. That's why people need to, if they haven't already, download the COVIDSafe app. Greg Hunt, the Health Minister, has said that over and over again and people need to do it.

NORMAN SWAN

Just actually on JobKeeper, why won't you release the review before the Eden-Monaro by-election on Saturday?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

The Eden-Monaro by-election was brought about because a Labor member retired. The date of July 4 for that by-election was never part of the COVID-19 response or part of the economic update. It just so happened to have been called by the Speaker of the House of Representatives on July 4 and honestly, the people of Eden-Monaro, if they really are thinking of their vote, they should vote for a Coalition candidate because at least they will have somebody who is actually in Government who can make a real difference and real change for the betterment of their lives. That's what they should be doing. But that's, of course, up to them and they will be making that decision at pre-poll all week and on Election Day this Saturday.

NORMAN SWAN

How much has the COVID crisis in Victoria jeopardising the country's economic recovery, in your view?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

It's not just the country's economic recovery, it's also the AFL. I see they've reconfigured the round coming up this weekend and the round seven and eight following that and of course, that's been a big situation that the CEO, Gill McLachlan, has had to address overnight. I'm sure the clubs, they want to get on the ground so they're doing what they need to do and what they can. But, yes, we are going to be there for Victoria. We're all in this together. We're not just State versus State, it's not Melbourne versus Sydney or anybody else. We need to make sure that as the Commonwealth we stand ready to provide whatever assistance, medical or otherwise, that Victoria needs to get through this situation and people in Melbourne, in those hot spots, need to do the right thing. As Professor Brendan Murphy says, if they need to stay at home, well, jolly well stay at home. It's not difficult. I appreciate it might be a little bit inconvenient but we need to get through this situation. They have to think of others, particularly the elderly, particularly those who are in the most vulnerable age sector and they are our older Australians. So think of others, do the right thing and we'll get through this.

NORMAN SWAN

Michael McCormack. Thanks for joining us.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Thanks, Norman.