The Preferred Path to Network Expansion in APAC

Transcript

Richard Maslen:So I'm delighted to be back up here now on stage, and this is sort of a bit of a follow-up to the session that we had earlier on moderated by Oriol, looking a little bit more about networks, change in aviation networks, and also the power of partnerships now. So I'm delighted to have Marisa from Airbus. I've got Bernard from Tigerair Taiwan and Hugh from Dohop. So it's not quite so simple now in terms of network growth of just simply adding new aircraft. Aircraft are quite scarce at the moment and difficult to get hold of. They're also rather expensive as well. So sometimes actually launching a new route isn't the most logical opportunity to grow connectivity. There's other ways and other opportunities to do that. So I think to start with looking at this, you know, the complexity of growing networks, and I'm going to start rather strangely here with Airbus rather than speaking to the airlines. This has a big impact on how you're looking at how markets change, Marisa. So from your perspective, airlines clearly want to add aircraft. That's the optimal opportunity moving forward. But are we reaching a point, do you think, where you as a manufacturer need to look at slightly differently because airlines are approaching things in a slightly different way now?

Marisa Lucas Ugena:Yeah, well, thank you for having us here and thank you for receiving us in Hokkaido. Yeah, it's a very interesting question and our job at Airbus as a manufacturer is to anticipate all these things, right? Because if we start to think about it now, we're going to be late when the airlines need it. So it's been some time already that, well, you know, we do our global forecast, market forecast every year, and the growth is there, especially in the region. It will continue to grow at a pace that is gonna mark the pace of the entire world. But this growth has been very much dependent on, let's say, 20 megacity hubs. that are getting congested. So it's been a while now since we've been looking at where growth is going to happen. And there are— and it's been said repetitive times already in the session today— there are, there are other cities that are still very big and that have huge potential. So that's the reason why we are putting in the market airplanes that have the right size. for thin routes that may be not at reach or were not at reach with previous generation airplanes. So the case of the A220 or the A321XLR, they have the right size and the right range to connect those, you know, secondary cities and give more flexibility to the airlines to grow in a, in a different way to where growth has happened until now.

Richard Maslen:Now, I know from the sessions we had earlier on, you know, we can see that secondary cities are now becoming so important in terms of growth. But there's also the bigger risk when starting flights to these markets. So, Bernard, from, from your perspective, you know, how do you ensure when you have your fleet strategy of which aircraft size you have that these new markets will actually work for those? And when do you start to think, well, is there another way that we can perhaps serve these routes? perhaps by partnerships with other airlines?

Bernard Hsu:Yes, I think it's more about market decisions. Uh, it depends on the market demand or strategic values or economy. If the market is strong enough or sustainable, we will consider to operate by ourselves. But if the market is small or seasonality or still unproven, uh, the— then the connectivity could be an option for us. So I think the connectivity could be an route development tool for us to assess the market before we commit to operate by ourselves. I think we look at whether we create the value by our own aircraft or we create the value to the customers by connectivity.

Richard Maslen:Hugh, looking at it from your side, from outside the industry point of view, from away from airlines and the OEMs, it is provocative, this question, but When is actually the best opportunity to start a new route to use someone else's aircraft rather than your own?

Hugh Aitken:So I think, yeah, maybe if I just take a second to talk about what, so in Dohop, what our focus is, is connecting airlines and we have a network of airlines. So we have over 100 airlines who supply their content into our network and then we have over 20, and Tigerair Taiwan, we've just announced our partnership today, which we're incredibly happy about, that consume that content. So it allows them in a much more straightforward way to connect to other airlines versus a traditional interline or codeshare agreement. So we have this network and it just allows them to, so Tigerair Taiwan, for example, in their TigerHop platform, they're connecting with Scoot without any sort of the complexity of it. So it provides the traveler with opportunity for a single order to build a multi-airline itinerary. And then we also take the servicing lift. There was a conversation earlier on about servicing being one of the real challenges with partnerships between airlines. We take that lift off the airline and we'll service during disruption for them as travelers buy a product from us that enables them to do that. So we take, we make it a lot easier for them to scale. So when we look at the connectivity journey, you know, we would say that we are one step away from the traveler. There's a huge number of travelers who go onto airline websites, all the airlines in this room, and construct trips themselves. We then— and there's a load of airlines who go to OTAs and construct those trips, and the airlines are giving all of that traffic to OTAs to allow them to own the traveler. We do it— we allow the airline to still own that traveler and still take that order on their own platform and connect with another in a much more seamless way and much more straightforward. And I think particularly in a market like Asia, where across the whole of APAC You know, there's the connectivity, and for many reasons it's harder for airlines to scale networks irrespective of the airline supply issue, that we believe just, you know, the connectivity that we can offer them just allows them to do that much faster and much more efficiently versus investing in direct routes. As Bernard said, you know, we're a great way to test the water of a direct route and build up that, and then it might then translate into a direct route, and that's absolutely great for The traveler ultimately, because they would rather fly direct. Yeah,

Richard Maslen:Marisa, what are your observations on, on the marketplace? You know, the Asian market, especially Asia-Pacific market, is probably one of the most fragmented in the world. Is that an opportunity for people like, like Bernard and Hugh to develop these relationships, given the fact that the marketplace is very different than perhaps in other areas of the world?

Marisa Lucas Ugena:Yeah, I think it's, it's a great, it's a great opportunity. It's fascinating how fragmented it is, and it's very, very good to follow, and it's a laboratory.

Richard Maslen:So, you know, so building on that, Hugh, it's, you know, does the market fundamentals in Asia support this product better than perhaps other areas in the world? And, you know, how does this differentiate from what a passenger would see as a traditional hub-and-spoke within the one group? Because you're not necessarily removing that concern and that risk that they have. You know, the passenger sees a flight, maybe, you know, you're flying with Korean Air, you see the KE code on all your flights, you feel comfortable, and you're connected together. You know, how's the customer feel when he's flying Tigerair Taiwan and then connecting to Scoot with different flights? And who So, 2 parts

Hugh Aitken:to the question. So maybe deal with the second part first. So effectively what we do in Dohop, what we're doing with Tigerair Taiwan is we build the connectivity between the 2 airlines. So we have the technical ability to build connections and then we have basically an offer order engine that allows a traveler to come in and build a single order across multiple airlines. So the traveler sees it as one transaction. So you're not doing the booking? In the background, we've got some fairly sophisticated payment orchestration that will facilitate the payments across multiple airlines. We then add our own servicing product in if the traveler selects it. In some cases, it's already included. In others, the traveler selects it. And that's a disruption handling product. So the traveler, you know, if we think of it from the traveler point of view, they start the journey on the airline website. They then see a single order. that's branded as the airline. And during disruption, we'll take the load off the airline. The challenge with a virtual interline model is the airline doesn't know that the traveler has an onward flight. Now we've got ways that, you know, if there's disruption, we take care of that for the airline so their servicing desks don't need to worry about it. That we'll proactively message the travelers. So we take all of that load away from the airline. And yeah, and in that way, just simplifying simplify the process a lot more for the airline. And I think that's one of the things I think it was Jal mentioned earlier on, that the servicing across is even complex in a traditional interline world and being able to service across 2 unrelated airlines where service standards are different or etc. But, you know, our model is one where we take that complexity away from the airline. I think on Asia in general, the first part of the question, you know, what we see is it's interesting because since the pandemic, you know, across the whole of the APAC region, there's still 1,000 less city pairs being served, particularly internationally. Now, a large proportion of that is China out, but there's still a lot of capacity out of the network. And in a market where LCCs are 30% of it, you know, we would say the hub and spoke market traditionally appeals for full-service airlines, you know, the serves, the hub, that, that's what their model is built on. It's not what the LCC model is built on. So when you think about LCCs being the growth engine of aviation in the region and hub and spoke is not built around them, and hub and spoke often flying to very constrained airports, airspace, and airport infrastructure, we think is a much more efficient way to allow the LCC market to grow in a less risky and, and In a much more simple— back to what Jeanette was saying earlier on, you know, the principles of LCC are simplicity and low cost, and that's what our model helps sustain.

Richard Maslen:Bernard, can I sort of bring that on to you? You know, it is a complex thing growing and adding connectivity like this. And as well, you know, when I spoke to Jeanette earlier on about the focus on keeping things simple from a low-cost carrier point of view, you know, how does this work from your side? What are the benefits that you gain from such relationships? And what is the next steps that this now brings to you when you're thinking about your future development? Bernard?

Bernard Hsu:I think the customer, they don't buy the complexity. We rely on the technology to absorb the complexity behind the scenes. So the customer just gets the valuable things in behind. So the customer don't need to know the complexity behind, but they just need to know what they are buying, how much it costs, or where to go, or what is included, or what happens if something goes wrong. So I think the complexity should be made done simply, and simple things should be made reliable, and reliable is what we build our trust.

Richard Maslen:Now, so Marisa, you've got a vested interest in wanting people to buy aircraft, obviously. But if I wanted to buy as a small airline, say I was launching my own airline, I needed some aircraft, I'm not going to be looking until middle of next decade perhaps until I can get an aircraft. So, you know, is this an opportunity for the industry to be able to, you know, offer better growth opportunities by when an aircraft is not necessarily required by an airline? there's another alternate way for them to build connectivity and then frees up slots on your production line for other airlines that perhaps require aircraft a lot earlier because the industry dynamics have changed.

Marisa Lucas Ugena:Yeah, obviously. Well, as an industry, we adapt and we— connectivity is always good. It's not— I don't think it goes against the fleet growth itself is more a kind of a sequential relationship between the two. I think it's great that airlines have the opportunity to taste new markets through connectivity, just create this awareness and understanding the flows, et cetera. And that connectivity reach a point where the market is mature and then a known metal can be deployed into that market. And in the meantime, yeah, those airplanes can be redeployed somewhere else. So I think it's very complementary. And actually what we see in other markets is that that connectivity is actually creating growth in the fleets as well.

Richard Maslen:Okay, so we're, you know, we're making connectivity the key the clear driver of all this, but passengers don't buy connectivity. They're buying the journey, as Hugh has said, from getting to A to B. Hugh, you've highlighted about you taking the load off the airlines, but who is ultimately responsible when something goes wrong? You know, we're in an industry where unfortunately delays are common, connections are being shrunk to levels that in some airports you can describe as, you know, not sustainable anymore. We still have— while we're better at managing bags, we're seeing more bags still being disconnected from journeys. You know, how do we manage that? And what is the next step going forward to be able to deliver on that, you know, service to a customer to make them feel that everything is— and they're in safe hands on the journey?

Hugh Aitken:So I think there's 2 parts to that. First of all, the model that we have is it's still 2 different bookings, so there's still 2 PNRs generated, and each airline takes accountability for their own PNR. If there's disruption in one of those PNRs, that's when we step in and help the traveler, and we have a really good process, and we proactively message the traveler and work with the traveler to make sure that we can, you know, we can service recovery. So that takes all of that load off the airlines. So that's So that's very clear as part of it. The next part is when we add up, so traditionally we haven't connected the bag and that's a challenge because, you know, that means the traveler's got to clear immigration, collect their bag and reclaim it again. And across Asia, you know, there's complexities with visa rules, et cetera. So what we are now doing is we're scaling the ability to connect the bag as well. So we're live with Scoot and Air India Express and we've got a number of other airlines that we're working with at the moment. So, to provide bag connectivity as well, which sounds straightforward, but it's not, particularly across multiple PSSs. So we've now got the technical ability to do it, and then we work really closely with our airlines in terms of the operational handling and the liability. When you've got a bag involved, it becomes a lot more complex. But, you know, we're working with airlines on that. The good thing is most airlines or handling agents in airports have the capability and infrastructure to connect a bag and they have the processes there and the service recovery models there. Actually, the complexity is the technical operability to connect a bag across 2 independent PNRs. And that's what, you know, we've built the capability for.

Richard Maslen:Bernard, putting this to you with this new arrangement that you have with Scoot through Dohop, you know, would you rather sell a passenger a cheap nonstop flight Or perhaps a more complicated itinerary that gets them somewhere you don't deserve— you know, sorry, you don't serve. And, you know, how do you record the success of this, and how does this formulate your next steps?

Bernard Hsu:I think for an LCC customer, price is still the key factor. Even if there's a direct flight, I think mostly it should be not affordable for the customers. So if we can offer a better and convenient way for them, I think the customer would accept the connections. So I think the key is only the value. So we try to provide them not just the price, the time, I think also the experience or the convenience for them. So that is the value of the journey.

Hugh Aitken:Maybe if I just jump in as well. One of the things we talked to Bernard about, but, you know, we work with the likes of easyJet and Wizz and Pegasus as well. And in this region, you know, we're working with, you know, AirAsia Express, as mentioned, and Scoot. And one of the things we often talk about with our airlines is they might not fly the route every single day. Mm. So if you've got a traveler who wants to go out on a Monday and come back on a Thursday, but the airline only flies that route directly on a Monday, they can then use us to fill in that return journey. So they're extending their reach across all of those days and we integrate into their calendar view. So it might be a nonstop on the way out, but there might be a one-stop on the way back, either with that airline on both legs and we'll show that, or it might be that airline with a partner airline. So it just allows their ability to fill in those gaps for the traveler. So it actually enhances the traveler choice.

Richard Maslen:Okay, just to remind you all, we are accepting questions via Slido if you have any. that you want to ask anyone up here, please put them through Slido, or I'll give you an opportunity towards the end of the session. We do have a question already here for, for you, Marisa, on how Airbus manages the supply chain constraint to adjust— address the aircraft delivery delay while at the same time to ensure delivery quality is not compromised. I guess it's a hard task to do that, but—

Marisa Lucas Ugena:Yeah, with a lot of effort, as you can imagine. Yeah, I think we were talking about this with a customer yesterday, and it's the challenge of keeping up with the everyday business and keep the quality up to the right level, and at the same time ramping up to a level that is completely unknown in the industry, and with an ecosystem that is huge, very global, and very difficult So, so we not only put a lot of things in place ourselves, but also work with our Tier 1 suppliers. And, you know, Rolls-Royce is in the room, and we work very close at all levels. And then there are Tier 2, 3, 4. And so we are expanding our influence and the efforts just to make sure that we not only can ramp up at the pace the industry needs, but also make sure that we are at the quality that our customers are expecting.

Richard Maslen:Now, obviously, we build these partnerships, we look at opportunities moving forward, and just going back to the previous panel session where I think Oriole said that she's scared of AI, and a lot of us are scared of AI. Hugh, I think to you, are we heading towards a world now where the digital platform is now becoming the network and And making such decisions? If so, does the airline lose sight of who the customer is? And who again is the winner out of this at the end of it? Is it you or is it the airline?

Hugh Aitken:I think ultimately we'd say hopefully it's the traveler because we have to put the traveler right at the heart of everything we do and providing them with options and connectivity and the right sort of data and information is critical. I think if you think about, you know, ultimately for us the airline owns the traveler. So I think that's what marks out our partnership that we have, for example, with Tigerair Taiwan to a traditional OTA. And there's lots of OTAs who build, construct itineraries as well, is that we very much put the airline in control of who they work with. So, you know, we've, as I said earlier, we've got 100 airlines plus airlines in our network and the airline can take a whole bunch of them Easily and just straight away add them to the platform. There's others where the airline will agree a partnership with the other one, a very light-touch partnership. But so the airline is very much in control of what it is. We just facilitate, we're the infrastructure layer that the airline can use to facilitate that connection. I think this third bit is we add a huge amount of, you know, we are sharing a lot of data with our airlines about where we're seeing demand, what other airlines we suggest, how much revenue that could generate for the airline. So we do a lot of that. But I think ultimately then we make sure that that content is available where the traveler actually is. And I think that's also critical. Where is the traveler booking? And that is changing at the moment. You know, the data says about 60-odd percent of people are quite happy to let an AI agent, you know, do the discovery part. Okay, there's been a couple of announcements recently, but, you know, LLMs are not yet doing booking and facilitating that. I think that's going to be the next big frontier. We as an industry need to work out how our— we're doing a lot, you know, our discoverability is over 90% on LLMs for our flights. The next bit is how do we make sure that the LLMs can actually go in and book those, but do it very much in partnership with our airlines. And that's going to be the next big challenge for us as an industry is how do we cope with this shifting consumer behavior. And for airlines, how do you still make your brand relevant and visible when an agent will be, will be doing a lot of the facilitation of that search and booking for the traveler?

Richard Maslen:Okay, so we've got some more questions here, slightly off the topic that we're discussing, but I think they're still quite relevant. So Bernard, the one for you there, congratulations on your strong first half result despite the fuel price spike. What are the key drivers and how you mitigate the fuel cost impact as a low-cost carrier?

Bernard Hsu:Yeah, I think we still keep the simplicity as a low-cost carrier, and we try to keep reviewing our route network. So during this summer, we, we have tried to cut some of the routes which is not profitable or less profitable. So we keep trying to keep our network sustainable and strong. Even in the current situation, we still keep profiting until now. This year is still challenged, but we try to keep survive and keep sustainable.

Richard Maslen:Marisa, there's another one for you there on the development of network fleets in the region when it comes to upgauge into widebodies to deal with constrained hub airports. What are you seeing from that side?

Marisa Lucas Ugena:As I said at the beginning, we keep studying and Our focus now, really, where we think growth is gonna happen is not really on the constrained airports, but around. And there are more than 2,200 unserved routes in the region that could be served with the right size of aircraft. So in our view, what is key for this development is right-sizing is going away from trying to fill the biggest airplane because it's economically viable in terms of cost per seat, but really putting the right gauge in the right market and having, well, being comfortable with using dual fleets within the, as I said before, the A220 or the XLR. They have the right capability, the right cabin to really open new markets, and that's where we believe growth is going to happen.

Richard Maslen:And, you know, and I know Embraer would say the same with, with their, their E-Jet family as well. Now, what, what is the opportunity, particularly in Asia-Pacific, that the aircraft like the A220 and the A321XLR particularly offer to airlines?

Marisa Lucas Ugena:So first thing is the range. the range capability. So going beyond, I mean, not everybody's as well placed as Hong Kong Express in the, in the Grey Bay area. There are, there are markets that are farther away and more difficult to reach. So having that range beyond the 5 hours, going up to 7 hours in the case of the A220, or going Well beyond to 9 hours like the XLR that opened the market and makes the, you know, reaching Australia and connecting north and southeast part of the region. And secondly, the cabin. The cabin that is offering what the customer needs for those type of long-haul routes. So I think those are the unique selling points of these 2 fleets.

Richard Maslen:So, you know, as I say, the fundamentals of network decisions are changing now because of partnerships and the opportunities that they provide. So looking sort of 5 years ahead, Hugh, obviously you're coming in with this, you know, dynamic new opportunity and model. You know, how do you see Asia-Pacific airline networks looking? Do you think, you know, I'm going to give you 3 options here, and I don't know whether you're going to, you know, there may be just a general response that covers all 3. Will they own the aircraft and operate the routes themselves? Will they own a core fleet but use partnerships to fill in the gaps? Or will they become essentially an orchestrator of a much broader connected network? Where do you think it will go?

Hugh Aitken:Well, that's a good question. You know, at the end of the day, I think that what airlines will do will not change. You know, whether you lease, buy, or whatever other arrangement you have to have aircraft, it will carry on. I think, you know, there is so much demand. You know, as Kemal said in the previous panel, India is the fastest growing aviation market in the world and the second largest market globally, isn't it, for air travel? So that will carry on. The demand for for travel is there. Okay, there's constraints with getting aircraft and suchlike, so that's for airlines to look how do they manage their fleet effectively. I think what we are doing in our model is saying to airlines, listen, you can partner very flexibly with others to grow your network, and that can either be to fill in if you can only operate the route 2 or 3 days a week because of capacity, you can provide connectivity with others to fill in those blanks. You're giving the traveler the true choice. I think ultimately for an airline How do they put the traveler at the center of everything that they do? And one of the opportunities that we provide is we can provide them that connectivity to the traveler and give them more options to provide that traveler greater choice, maybe as their network is constrained because of aircraft or regulatory constraints, etc. And also making sure that, as mentioned earlier on, making sure that they're actually where the traveler is. So, you know, there is huge variety across Asia in terms of how travelers interact and book travel. You know, in India, for example, as Kamal was saying, WhatsApp is a hugely dominant channel. You know, the agencies MakeMyTrip and others are huge there. You've got Trip and Traveloka in other parts of it, as well as the direct channel. So actually making sure that connectivity and those options are featuring where the traveler is, I think, is hugely important. So, you know, how they grow their fleets is very much, that's for the airline, the airlines will work through themselves. I think what, you know, what we do and what others will do is give them connectivity to the traveler and give choice to the traveler. So it means that the airline is owning more of that experience rather than giving it over to OTAs or others in the ecosystem.

Richard Maslen:So Marisa, what do airlines ultimately need now? Do they need aircraft or do they need connectivity? What comes first?

Marisa Lucas Ugena:They need both. But if you don't have airplanes, there is very little you can do, right? So yeah, as I said before, connectivity, it may be the first step to open other markets, and, and once they are, they are mature, deploying aircraft. So both, they are very complementary.

Richard Maslen:So Bernard, putting you on the spot a little bit here, what would you prefer to have if, if, if I could give you 10 new aircraft and Straight away, or I can give you access to 10 million more people and passengers. What's your preference?

Bernard Hsu:I think we agree with Marisa that we need both. Aircraft is our physical network, so the foundations, but the connectivity gives us the opportunity to access the market. I think the opportunity is to combining the both. It is not the questions about the aircraft versus connectivity. It should be Aircraft plus connectivity in for future opportunity.

Richard Maslen:Equals opportunity and success. So we're going to come into the last 5 minutes. I did say I'll open the floor to questions. If anyone wants to ask a question, please, you want to raise your hand and we'll get a mic to you. No, I can't see any hands out there, so we'll carry on with this. So just over the last 5 minutes, I'd just like to— just some, some sort of fairly quick answers from you on some specific questions on on travel and connectivity in the region. Marisa, starting with you, what's the biggest obstacle to Asia-Pacific network growth, do you think?

Marisa Lucas Ugena:Probably the congestion of some of the airports and the fragmentation of the regulations.

Richard Maslen:Bernard, any others?

Bernard Hsu:I think the fragmentation across the market.

Richard Maslen:Hugh, what's your view?

Hugh Aitken:Very much the same. I think the other one, of course, would be just aircraft supply holding back growth.

Richard Maslen:Okay, what's the biggest opportunity in your eyes to grow in air travel connectivity in Asia-Pacific? Marisa?

Marisa Lucas Ugena:For me, those 2,200 untapped routes that we can, we can explore with A220s and A321XLRs.

Richard Maslen:Bernard, from, from the Taiwan perspective in terms of opportunities?

Bernard Hsu:Yep, due to the aircraft supplies or crew constraints, I think the opportunity will be the connecting network.

Richard Maslen:Hugh?

Hugh Aitken:Yeah, I think, you know, as I mentioned earlier on, since the pandemic, across APAC, there's still 1,000 less international options being given to travellers. So we feel as though there's a huge opportunity to just how do we provide connectivity to scale that back up again.

Richard Maslen:Okay, I'm gonna come back so Marisa doesn't always get to answer first. Hugh, what's the most overrated thing in airline network planning?

Hugh Aitken:Oh wow, my goodness. I don't know how many network planners do we have in the room that I'll offend. What is the most overrated thing? I think, you know, oh my goodness, that's a good question. I think first of all, if I think about what's really important for network planning is access to really reliable data. I think traditional data sources can be overrated. Having done a lot of airline network planning. So how can you use a whole variety of data sources? You know, there's very rich data out there that airlines can access, and, you know, MIDT, those traditional sources just don't give that, particularly for an LCC. It's just not relevant for it. I think that's the first thing. I think the second thing is just being open to different options and not always be set on the traditional approach of it has to be our metal flying between A and B.

Richard Maslen:I

Bernard Hsu:think the growth doesn't mean we need to add more aircraft and more destinations. So the operator will be counting the destination.

Richard Maslen:That's simply coming down to the numbers of, yeah, this is how many we operate. Marisa?

Marisa Lucas Ugena:I think probably one of the overrated aspects is load factor, because filling the airplane at any cost is not necessarily bringing you all the revenue. So

Richard Maslen:that's a very, very, very good point. Now I'm going to go back up this way. What's the most underrated? What's the biggest opportunity there is out there that perhaps we're not taking advantage of?

Marisa Lucas Ugena:Yeah, I think it's getting into this dual fleet, kind of just putting the right size in the right place. Don't be afraid of doing that. I think it has a good potential.

Bernard Hsu:I think it's the, the value of the journey. It will be, as I mentioned, that it will be maybe time or price or convenience or experience for the journey.

Hugh Aitken:I think I'll give a self-serving Dohop answer first. I think it's just be open to different, biggest opportunity to be open to different partnership models rather than the traditional approach. I think that's probably back to just a more general point about the industry is that we kind of default to a lot of the traditional approaches to solving problems and it's just how do we open up our eyes? And I think it was Jal mentioned earlier on, offer order will, you know, okay, it's gonna take a long time for offer order to scale, let's be honest. But as more airlines adopt the principles of offer order, the ability to connect with a huge number of different people easily and really seamlessly will open up, and that's a huge opportunity for airlines. I think what it comes back to is what's really important, and was mentioned in the previous panel, ultimately the first time a traveler will really encounter the airline will be when they get on board. So as a network planner, actually, you know, how do you open up the network, but actually how do you make sure as an airline exec, how is— how are we delivering that reliable operation and that service excellence when the traveler gets on board or when things go wrong, as inevitably they will, that the traveler feels that, you know, the airline's got them at the heart.

Richard Maslen:I think as you highlighted there about offer and order, we've, you know, we've been talking about these ways of using technology to benefit the industry, and it is a long process. It's not a simple simple process, and it's taken a lot longer than, than many of us even conceived at the start. But obviously the progress is there, and it will make a noticeable difference as, as we continue on. So it'll be interesting to see how, how that happens. So, um, I think we've established one thing is that the future of airline networks is going to be a little bit different moving forward. Um, there'll still be plenty of aircraft. Marisa will be glad to hear. And there will be plenty of new routes being announced with the potential that there is out there. And I'm sure Marisa will make sure there's enough aircraft for the airlines to use. I mean— But the, the smartest way of growing we're hearing now may not necessarily be by just adding an aircraft in with your own aircraft. And this creates an interesting shift in our eyes at CAPA in terms of aviation. The aircraft is still what's going to move the passenger, but increasingly connectivity is what's what's going to be creating the networks moving forward. Making that connection work is fundamental, and I'm sure Hugh has lots of late nights worrying about when the system breaks down and everything. And obviously the test of that is when someone arrives at an airport at 11 o'clock and their bag hasn't arrived and they've missed their connection, that the support is there in place. So there's still a lot of fundamental work that goes on there. So I think it just shows that there's a lot of developments happening and there's a lot of interest an opportunity moving forward to grow networks differently to how we've done before. So can I just have a big round of applause for all my panelists? Thank you for joining me.

Copyright policy: All transcripts on this site are the copyright of CAPA - Centre for Aviation. Our reproduction policy is as follows: you may quote up to 400 words of any transcript on the condition that you attribute the transcript to CAPA - Centre for Aviation and link to the original video page. All other use is prohibited. While we aim for 100% accuracy in the transcript, there may be some minor transcribing errors.