Global aviation’s unbalanced outlook

Transcript

Henry Harteveldt:I'm Henry Harteveldt. I am not Karen Walker, who was supposed to be moderating this session. However, Karen is not able to join us this morning, so I'm going to ask my panel to please join me up on stage. We've got a terrific group of airline executives and leaders to talk about the unbalanced outlook for our industry. As you can see, we have Frederico from Avianca, Allan from Kenya Airways, Peter from TUI Airline. All of these CEOs are leaders and respected leaders within our industry. We talk about the unbalanced outlook. We talk about ours being a global industry. The truth is that ours is very local and very regional in how we do business. What I would like to do is simply start by asking each of you, just what's your outlook for 2026 overall? Is it negative, neutral, positive? Do you think that you will have a— that your airlines will have good years over 2026 or so, or is it something that's concerning you? Allan, I'm going to ask you to start us off.

Allan Kilavuka:For me, I think I've got a very positive outlook for 2026 because what has constrained us as Kenya Airways and African carriers is mainly a capacity issue. We're trying to resolve the capacity issue. The market is there, it's growing, it's probably the fastest-growing market. Subject to geopolitical issues that might happen in 2026, I think it's a positive outlook. We're looking forward to bigger growth and solving the capacity constraints that we have.

Henry Harteveldt:Okay, Frederico, what's the outlook for Avianca?

Allan Kilavuka:Well, thank you very much.

Frederico Pedreira:Thank you for the opportunity to be here. I'm delighted to. We're also very positive. I'm almost saying the word, you know, tempted to say the word bullish about 2026, considering, of course, you know, a bunch of variables that, that, that were in '25 and will continue in '26. For instance, engines. Engines have been a headache for us throughout '25, and we believe that they'll continue in '26. Political tensions will be another. So given all the variables that we continue to be concerned, but we were able to navigate through 2025, What we see that from a market perspective, from the fundamental demand perspective, demand is there. We're positive about '26.

Allan Kilavuka:Great.

Henry Harteveldt:Peter, what's the outlook for TUI Airline?

Peter Glade:I think it was a former Airbus leader that says the core essence of leadership is breathe in pressure and breathe out optimism. I'm very bullish for next year. What I— what we see across Europe, and we've got our airlines distributed, the actual AOCs distributed across 5 countries in Europe, what we're seeing is that the leisure demand is there. The going gets tough. The economic situation in many of the markets is not as positive as it could be or should be, but people are rather giving up on other things than on the one holiday that they want to do per year or the 2 holidays that they want to do per year. We're seeing that the market fundamental, that the demand is strong and it's continuing to be strong in 2026. We're seeing that from the external factors, as of today, we are not expecting things to get worse if it comes to policies, if it comes to fuel prices, etc. I think it can be a very good year, but don't worry, we've always thought that about the next year, and then we were surprised at the end of the year with everything that has happened.

Henry Harteveldt:From a regulatory standpoint, what do you all consider to be some of the biggest challenges that your airlines are facing in your parts of the world over the next, call it, year to 2 or 3 years? Are they related to sustainability? Are they related to limiting the number of operations? Is it related to investment in air traffic management or— Or something else from a regulatory standpoint? We're going to get to the issue of engines, and I promise you that, Fred.

Peter Glade:Yeah, well, for Europe, I can answer that. It's— there's a few topics that we will all be seeing in European aviation in 2026, and here we're talking air traffic control, and I'm not getting even managed single European sky and all the issues that are coming out there, but that is a continuing topic that is going to be something that we'll be all seeing in Europe. If you're looking at the fundamental data, European aviation, I think, for the first time has overtaken or is forecasted to overtake the American carriers in terms of profitability. If you go one level deeper, you'll see that regionally, that is very different. There's a few carriers who are doing very, very good business, and there's many that still struggle. From a regulatory perspective, the answer Of the different governments in Europe, however, is very different. If you're looking at the Dutch market, and we heard KLM CEO this morning, nearly all parties in the Netherlands are currently, I would even use the word hostile, if it comes to aviation policies. They really want to restrict us from making money, from connecting, which one could argue was the first 5th freedom hub in Europe. From making it stop growth. The only party that has a pro-aviation agenda is a party that then is against open borders and against traffic. That makes it very difficult. If you're looking at the UK, we have, I think, the most aviation-friendly government that the UK has seen in a long time, where we see new airports being opened, where we see expansions in all of the London airports coming up. Where we see really investment and we're seeing that aviation is seen as an opportunity to grow for an island that has, unfortunately, if I may say so, decided to exit the European Union. Then you have governments like the German government who say that they're very pro-aviation, then behind the doors, they tell us nothing is going to happen, and then they completely surprise us with a tax cut that nobody really thought that was going to come. It's not that we— I mean, of course, we did our lobbying work. We tried to influence, but until a week earlier, it was pretty clear that was not going to come, and then suddenly it came. So it's a bit of an erratic situation. So local governments are tackling situations very differently, and at the same time, we're pretending we were one in the EU, and the only thing that we're seeing coming out of the EU for aviation at this point in time is more regulation and making things a little more difficult for us. We're very nervous about the new or the ongoing discussion currently between the European Parliament and the European Council on passenger rights. They will be reworking EU 261.

Henry Harteveldt:Yes, 261.

Peter Glade:261. They're looking at passenger rights as we speak, and there are proposals on the table that are very That would have a positive impact on the consumer and the industry. There are many proposals on the table currently that would restrict people from flying because it would just make it prohibitively expensive. I'm a bit nervous if it comes to regulation, to say the least.

Henry Harteveldt:Fred, what's the regulatory outlook for you? You operate Avianca in multiple countries.

Frederico Pedreira:I was going to start by— for me, it's part of my day-to-day to live in a very complex and diverse environment. Avianca Group is not one airline, actually 8 airlines under the umbrella that we operate, and we have certificates of operation in 60 different countries. The picture between the countries is very different. There are countries where we do have the support and they are very pro-aviation, and we've seen some Amazing progress in the last couple of years. I was there this week in El Salvador, for instance. El Salvador, the government has been very supportive from a regulatory framework, but also investing in infrastructure, and we've seen the result. To other countries where, you know, the best that we can wish for is that they don't think about Avianca and we keep ourselves being under the radar. And so it's a very different reality from country to country. Now, within that, you know, one of our— and because we operate in the region, you know, we've learned to try to navigate within that uncertainty. There is uncertainty and is a risk, both from, you know, from regulation that can change on a day-to-day basis, and we've seen that in other countries. We're facing— I'm not putting— I'm not giving the names, but other countries that we're facing the fact that basically, you know, there's the government that's disappeared. There's no one we can talk to. And it's also a challenge. So, so it's— but it's at the end is something that we've learned to live with and to manage because at the same time, aviation is so crucial for the area, for the region. And I'm saying, and even more than Europe or United States, because in some cases there's very limited road infrastructure. There's no railroad infrastructure. Aviation is the answer, or in a lot of cases, the only possible way to connect 2 cities within the region we operate. Because of that, it's kind of like a natural balance where In spite of sometimes living in a not very business-friendly environment, aviation is perceived as something that is essential. That gives us the balance. Now, that translates as well to everything that is infrastructure-related because that continues to be our number one issue on a day-to-day basis. The airports that we currently operate, The most important ones are far beyond the capacity that they should have been for a couple of years now. Regulation is an issue, but the other one is infrastructure, and the two go together. The last point is, and this is unrelated to the government itself, it is more the political system. What we continue to see It's— is that on a Congress and Senate level, some, some crazy, crazy ideas that keep appearing on a day-to-day basis.

Henry Harteveldt:Such as?

Frederico Pedreira:One of my favorite ones, taking out— and, and, and that project continues. It was taking out seats from a plane to leave more space for pets. Okay. And this is not a joke. Okay, this is not a joke. Okay.

Henry Harteveldt:Just, just from a standpoint of comfort, or they're saying they want it from a safety standpoint?

Frederico Pedreira:What safety? Safety?

Peter Glade:It's—

Allan Kilavuka:no, no, no.

Frederico Pedreira:It's just, it's just the fact that, you know, animals— and I love, I love dogs, and I love dogs, just to be clear. Okay. But, but there was a— there was one of the proposals was that was advanced quite a while, quite a bit, and we were able to temper it down, but was let's take seats out of a plane to leave more space for dogs. All right, so let's not put— on the same, same topic— let's not put a limit for pets on a plane. We had in the past flights with 50 dogs on an A320. Okay, that is not a joke. And by the way, those 50 dogs, every single one of them was an emotional support animal, right? Just in case.

Henry Harteveldt:Emotional support animal.

Frederico Pedreira:So There are those type of ideas that will continue to appear on the passenger protection side as well because it's also— and I'll finish with that. The issue for us is it's very popular and it's something that draws attention when a congressman or a senator puts on these flags saying, I'm going to fight the big airlines. Yes. They're not giving a good service. Either dogs should be able to fly as they want in airlines, or we should have cheaper tickets. It's always something that works from the perspective of having attention and having attention from the press. Unfortunately, we're always subject to that, and it's part of our responsibilities to be able to navigate with that. I have Peter here from IATA that is a very good partner in facing this type of crazy ideas.

Peter Glade:Thanks. Maybe we should take out a lavatory and instead plant a tree so that the dogs have some alleviation and we do something for sustainability.

Allan Kilavuka:Sure, why not?

Henry Harteveldt:Allan, what about the regulatory environment you face in Africa? Again, it's obviously the Kenyan government, but the governments of the many That's right. Any countries you fly to.

Allan Kilavuka:I was listening to Frederico and I was listening to Peter. Now, take away the dog scenario because that's unique, but everything else they said, if you put it— if you give it steroids, that would describe our challenges in Africa. Everything on steroids from what you've just described.

Henry Harteveldt:Everything what?

Allan Kilavuka:Sorry. On steroids.

Henry Harteveldt:Steroids.

Allan Kilavuka:Yeah, or multiply a couple of times over. If I just take a few examples, for example, We talk about infrastructure deficit for aerodromes, for navigation systems, and so on, that in some airports that I fly to, I have to pay for the fire engines. I have to pay for security. Otherwise, then I cannot fly because it's unsafe to fly. Yet I have to service those airports. If you think about the regulatory framework, for example, You think about— we have 54 countries in the region. Each of those 54 countries, even the ones that have economic blocs, have different regulations. You have to adhere to all those 54 regulations. By the way, they're in different languages. Some are Spanish and some are Portuguese, some are English, some are Arabic, and some are Italian. some are French, and so on and so forth. Very, very complex environment. Now, we have been pushing in Africa for open skies, you know, trying to push the point around democratizing travel in Africa, making it more affordable. And that's a good thing. I support it. So 38 of the 54 countries have signed up to these open skies. The idea is to move— we have 16% connectivity within the continent, intra-Africa connectivity, so we want to move that to a more respectable number, say 50%, which is closer to what is happening in Europe and Latin America. Now, the problem is that's not going to solve the problem. The problem we have in Africa is a very high-cost operating environment. That needs to be reduced so that we can encourage airlines to do city pairs within Africa. The infrastructure itself, going back to the regulatory framework, does not allow that to reduce cost because— I want to borrow what Frederico was saying. You see, we— and that's why I said ours is on steroids. In Africa, aviation is not at all seen as a catalyst for economic development. It's not seen.

Henry Harteveldt:Why?

Allan Kilavuka:Well, because the argument is Africa has bread and butter issues. If you think about it, we're dealing with malnourishment, we're dealing with food deficit, food security issues. If you tell a government to invest in aviation infrastructure, They have issues around feeding their children. What are they going to choose?

Henry Harteveldt:You know what? I get that. I certainly understand that, but I also want to build on a point that Frederico made, which is in Central and South America, aviation is often the gateway. It's the only form of transportation. Certainly, in a developing continent like Africa where Road infrastructure may not be consistently good. Rail infrastructure may not be consistently good. Massive distances. Aviation plays a critical role in many countries.

Allan Kilavuka:It's obvious to you, but if you think about a government that is facing an election next year and they have malnourishment, they don't have schools, they don't have hospitals, they will not think the way you and I would think about this, and you're completely correct. In fact, Aviation is a solution to those problems because it will create trade, connectivity, jobs, quality jobs for that matter. It will be a catalyst for all the other economic activities. But if you think about a government that for years sees aviation and it sees this cost, which, by the way, they are contributing to this heavy cost, but they look at the cost and say, you know, my population, more than 80% of them will not afford to fly anyway, So why should I invest in this industry? I would rather invest in an industry which will make me more electable. The idea is to change that thinking to say, actually, aviation is a solution to your problem because not only will it help you to build your economy, it will also be a catalyst to all the other activities you're looking at, all of them in particular. For example, in Kenya Airways, I keep telling the government, you see, we serve 12,000 meals a day. We are the biggest restaurant, not in the country, but in the entire region. In the entire East and Central Africa, Kenya Airways is the biggest restaurant because we serve 12,000 meals a day. Think about the impact it has on the agricultural sector.

Frederico Pedreira:Right.

Henry Harteveldt:I want to actually touch on something. Peter, I promise I'm going to get to you, but But for Allan and Frederico, the development of airports is critical, and I'm just curious, is there the ability to get the airports modernized, to build the new airports? Again, I heard what you said, Allan, that if you're a government and you're looking at, as you said, feeding children or building hospitals versus aviation, something like an airport, there are certainly more immediate needs.

Peter Glade:Yes.

Henry Harteveldt:You would think that the government officials would recognize in Africa the need for this. Frederico, it sounds like certainly there's more appreciation for aviation in Latin America, but are the airports being developed and built so that you guys can operate safely, you can expand your services, you can contribute to trade and the growth of the GDPs in those countries?

Allan Kilavuka:Yes.

Henry Harteveldt:in those countries and in those regions?

Frederico Pedreira:I think I've just— it was very interesting to hear a different perspective of a region that you said that was, I believe you, on steroids compared to what I live on day to day. I think the biggest difference is exactly that, is that in my region, aviation is very visible. It's on the newspaper every single day. The infrastructure issues are on the newspaper. That helps us. It doesn't mean that we operate with the conditions that we have to. In particular, right now, our main hub, which is Bogotá, is facing major disruptions due to infrastructure. On the other hand, we are seeing some success stories. I've mentioned El Salvador. El Salvador has been investing the last couple of years and is continuing to invest. in infrastructure. We see Ecuador, Peru, Brazil, Chile, where they are actually— it doesn't mean that is enough, and we need short-term, midterm, and long-term plans, right? But it's a little bit different from what I'm hearing because it's so visible that I think that pushes the agenda forward. Again, it doesn't mean that we have what we need today, When we look forward, I think the number one factor that will restrain the growth continues to be infrastructure, but it's an issue that is far more visible. With that, it just clearly helps out the airlines.

Henry Harteveldt:Let's broaden this. You brought up engines earlier, and we heard about this on the sustainability panel from the standpoint of the engines like inducted fan being Developed and so on. We have heard constantly over the past day yesterday, and Marjan talked about it with KLM this morning, the challenge with engines. I'm just curious, how bad is it? Do you think— is 2026 like the tipping point where we start going from the nightmare to something better, or do you believe that the supply chain issues are being addressed so that the engines can be delivered and are more reliable for your airlines? Peter, I'm going to ask you to start us off, please.

Peter Glade:Yes, I'm the wrong one to ask. If you were asking me about the delivery schedule of Boeing for the 737 MAX, I could have given you a very detailed answer on how frustrated I am, but also that I see light at the end of the tunnel, and I Currently, see that there is a bit of a stabilization coming on. As TUI Airline, as a 737 MAX and a 787 operator, having had the luck, and it's pure luck, to have chosen the right— to have chosen an engine that is currently not affected, I'm the wrong one to ask on that question.

Henry Harteveldt:We'll come back to you, though, on the Boeing and the deliveries there.

Peter Glade:Don't worry. One tiny little thing.

Henry Harteveldt:Yes, sir.

Peter Glade:On the previous one, on the previous question, I believe here's something that we all have to learn as an industry, both if it comes to our communication with the regulators, but also if we are talking directly to the people surrounding us and about infrastructure projects. If we sit and— I'm looking at it from a European perspective, and it might have been this way already in Africa and in South America or Latin America, but we're moving that direction in Europe as well. If I'm living— if I'm sitting in consultation and we're talking about airport expansion, and I'm talking about connectivity, and I'm talking about global cargo streams that will be coming, and I have a wonderful PowerPoint on how the GDP is going to grow and how we're going to be bringing prosperity to the national economy, I'm not going to win that case, as good as my arguments are. So the one thing that we're seeing in politics All over Europe at this point in time is people vote for what's in front of their noses.

Allan Kilavuka:Hmm.

Peter Glade:So if I don't come around and say, look, we built this, we invest the money here, and I'll be creating 1,000 jobs that will pay X amount of money. Look around in your families who currently doesn't have a job or has a job that is poorer paid. That's what we're going to change. All the PowerPoints in the back, I need to do the calculations anyway. But we have to be far more, excuse my French, populistic in the way that we defend our case, knowing that we want to do good, but the way that our political communication goes in Europe at the moment, we need to come out of the bubble, we need to come away from Excel and PowerPoint and really talk to how do we change the life of the people that are affected by this. We're going to bring you more noise, we're going to bring you more pollution. That's right. But here's the 3 things why your life is going to improve through that, and that also for those people who might never board one of our aircraft or only one time per year.

Henry Harteveldt:Sorry, that is still your last question. No, that's a good point. I mean, Allan, actually, I'd like you to— if you wouldn't mind, let's just build on this. The challenge of getting governments in Africa to understand what aviation can contribute, and again, against very, very legitimate, very real needs like hospitals and other parts of the infrastructure. What, you know, are there arguments Kenya Airways can make to say, look, if you do this, you're employing this number of people, it's these jobs, we will be able to hire more people, we will be able to bring in more tourists, we will be able to bring in more business people, it, you know, for every airplane we operate or every seat we bring in, it contributes X to your economy, whether it's in the home market or some of your key destinations.

Allan Kilavuka:You know, that is a legitimate feedback, but let me tell you, like he's saying, we're talking about bread and butter issues, literally. I mean, you're talking about a starving child in the north of Sudan, for instance. You're talking about lack of hospital, people dying, right? Again, you are a policymaker. You're a government official. You're a prime minister of a country. You have $10 billion. You want to invest this $10 billion. Where are you going to invest the $10 billion? Now, unless you have it in your blueprint, in your economic blueprint that says, I am going to use aviation to drive economic growth, like he says, and he's right, what's in front of you is what you'll invest the money for. That is the truth. Remember that these politicians have a 5-year lifespan. They have to get elected in the next 5 years, so they want quick and easy solutions for elections. Now, you can promise them 1,000 jobs, but how long will that 1,000 jobs take and how long will it take to feed their children? Of course, there are some countries who have seen beyond the elections, especially those ones who have not necessarily very democratic systems, so they can override the election issue and decide to go against the grain and then do the right thing and invest in long-term projects that will eventually help them solve the long-term solution, which is actually dependence on rain-fed agriculture and all these things that are bringing a lot of challenges. So I agree with him. That's the right thing to say. I am not sure it's going to sell very successfully unless you have a very visionary leader who sees aviation as a long-term solution— of course, aviation and other things— as a long-term solution to the problems that we currently have. And there are some countries in Africa who have done that. and they are successful. They have successful aviation industry and this successful aviation industry is contributing to economic growth. But many of the African countries don't see that as a priority. So I think that's what I wanted to say. I wanted to jump, if you allow me, very quickly to the engine issue.

Frederico Pedreira:Can I just add 2 seconds on something that we've learned is not to be focused just on the executive branch. Branch, because as you say, the executive branch changes very fast, every 4 or 5 years, and we need to target the executive branch. But on a day-to-day basis, we need to be present at the Congress, at the Senate, and explain why it's important. And, and sorry, not just the Congress, Senate, but on a regional level, to, to the, the, the region, to the representatives of the regions of the country that we are And explain why, because those guys will continue there and some of them will become part of the next government. Our experience is it is not one project. It's literally an exercise that we have to do on a day-to-day basis. As you were— anything like maintenance work or airport work, you'll have to be there and you have to explain. Otherwise, you just don't— you won't see any results. Because those guys will change every 4 years. Sorry.

Henry Harteveldt:No, no, no, not at all. All right, so we're starting to wind down.

Allan Kilavuka:Oh, the engines.

Henry Harteveldt:Yes, so let's talk about engines.

Allan Kilavuka:Yeah, because this is very important. Yeah, so the engines, we have a unique problem. We don't have a specific problem with the engine itself. With the engines themselves because we have different types of engines. What we have a problem with is the slots to fix these engines. The problem we're having is I'm a little bit unfortunate that I have a lot of the engines that need to go to shop at the same time, so it's a very heavy cost for me because most of those aircraft belong to the airline. I find that The shops are extremely unreasonable in demanding, you know, before they slot you in, you know, you have to pay this, you have to pay in advance, so it's a big strain. So the alternative I have to do is because I don't have slots, I have to ground aircraft. At the moment, 33% of my aircraft, the widebody, is grounded because of this issue. Now, the other Yes. The situations I have seen is in the past, these shops would take a lot more responsibility than they are now. So they open up this engine and, you know, we agree on what needs to be fixed. And when they complete the engine, you know, you're slapped with an extra $2.5 million because they didn't see this when they opened up the engine and see— they don't take responsibility. And, you know, you have to take it or leave it because they know that there is another 90 engines that are queuing up. If you don't take it, they move on to the next one. I'm very frustrated because this situation has caused a huge problem. Since the beginning of this year, I've had lots of my aircraft on the ground because of an engine situation which have— okay, and parts and spare parts as well, but for the most part, it's an engine situation. I'm not sure whether you have something similar. No.

Frederico Pedreira:I, you know, every single one of my engine types had issues this year. So, you know, today where it hurts the most is my 787 fleet, where I have 25% of the fleet on ground. Oh, so we have—

Allan Kilavuka:wow.

Frederico Pedreira:So yeah, they're pretty big birds, and it's been going on since more than a year now. And, you know, at the end, there's no spare engines. There's contracts, of course, we've been compensated, but at the end, we don't want to be compensated. We want to fly the planes.

Henry Harteveldt:Yeah.

Frederico Pedreira:Based on the— sorry, for us, the worst part was the lack of predictability because we were counting on having 1 or 2 787s on the ground. There were weeks where we had 7 787s on the ground. So, so managing that from an operational and commercial perspective is a true— is a nightmare. So that's on the 787. You know, uh, on the— also on the A320, both on the A320ceo and A320neo, um, we had significant issues throughout the year. How we see it— and, and maybe I think there's one number that impresses me and will give you an idea of our size of our issue was We had planned to remove during the year something like 70 engines and having 70 engine changes. I think last week we were at 135 engine changes.

Henry Harteveldt:How many?

Frederico Pedreira:135.

Henry Harteveldt:Wow.

Frederico Pedreira:Engine changes, because we're trying to extract the most we can from those cycles. We're all the time moving around engines to be able to keep those airplanes flying. So there's been a real issue. How do we see it? We are seeing some signs that on the 787, it might get a little bit better for next year. I say, I'm trying to be careful not to jinx it, just because of that. But we're seeing it's going in the right direction. In our CEOs, we believe that we already have a good view. of what's happening and it's, it's, um, it's more or less under control. We, we have a big question mark on, on the NEOs. We've, we fly the, the LEAP engine and what we've seen is, is that, uh, you know, uh, right now we are 2 or 3, uh, LEAPs on the ground and we don't have a clear visibility. Bottom line, it will continue and is not going to end. The issue is not going to end next year. That we're sure, and that's what we're planning for.

Henry Harteveldt:Peter, are you confident or not so confident that any aircraft deliveries you've got scheduled for 2026, '27 will be on time compared to how things have been? You're taking a look. Yeah, I was at this moment.

Peter Glade:12th of December, 2017. So far, all the signals that we are receiving is that for the 20 aircraft that we'll be having delivered next year, We're pretty much on track. Give a week or two, give a month or two, right?

Henry Harteveldt:Sure, yeah.

Peter Glade:But it's not give a year or two. At the moment, we're receiving signals that it's stabilizing and it's coming our way. Far later than we wanted, far more ACMI business than we wanted in the last years, but we're very, very confident and we're getting the right signals out of CMA.

Henry Harteveldt:Okay. We are— okay, it is the 12th of December. As airline leaders, what is the one thing you'd like Santa to bring each of your airline in 2026? Allan?

Allan Kilavuka:Aircraft.

Henry Harteveldt:Aircraft?

Allan Kilavuka:I mean, if I could get back to 100% of my capacity, my 2026 will be a very good year. So far, I'm still not there. I'm about 20% down. This would be the single biggest ask for me. I'd like my aircraft to be 100% so I can go on now with my capital-raising initiative.

Frederico Pedreira:I will be not so aggressive. I will just say predictability in terms of capacity, to know in advance what I will be able to fly. fly, which is— I would love to have more, but, but just having, you know, that vision between the, the aircraft deliveries, all right? Because we, we just were announced, you know, we were just informed that, well, our engines— sorry, some of our planes are impacted by the, the panel issue in Airbus. So predictability either from a delivery standpoint or from an engine standpoint.

Peter Glade:Come on, it's Santa. I want the next year to be, again, the safest year in aviation history, and that we make sure that we bring everybody that entrusts us with their life to places and people they love safely, soundly, happily, and on time.

Henry Harteveldt:Great. All right, ladies and gentlemen, please join me in thanking Peter, Frederico, and Allan.

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