Airline Leader Interview with Qantas Domestic CEO Markus Svensson

Transcript

Oriel Morrison:Now, for those of you who don't know who's sitting next to me, anybody not know who Markus is? Everybody knows who you are, Markus.

Markus Svensson:Thank you.

Oriel Morrison:Your fame precedes you. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Markus Svensson:Probably not a good thing.

Oriel Morrison:Now, yesterday I sat here at this spot with Dave from Virgin, and I know that you were listening to us.

Markus Svensson:Yes.

Oriel Morrison:And I started off by saying, you know, he must be exhausted, you know, he must be very tired, he's had a very full-on start to the role as CEO. Now you've been in the role as CEO for longer than he has, however, your last few months have been arguably worse than his. How are you feeling?

Markus Svensson:Well, I'm, yeah, I'll be honest, yeah, it's been couple of tough months, but also very exciting months for us. So yeah, I'm actually really excited, excited for the future, excited being in this room, excited being in front of so many of my peers, all the Qantas people here, but also all the ex-Qantas people here. So it's been fantastic. But yes, look, we've had a couple of tough months. We obviously had the cyber incident and unfortunately it coincided when we took delivery of our first A321XLR. So I was actually up in Hamburg taking delivery of it when it happened. So I just want to take the opportunity to this room to say, and to all our customers, we are very sorry what happened. We sincerely apologize for what happened. It's unfortunate, but we are very committed to, and we have been since, making sure our systems are as secure as possible. We've also been very transparent with customers of what happened. And I do want to reiterate, yes, data was stolen, but no passwords, credit card detail, or passport details were taken. So yes, it's been a tough time, but transparency and making sure we have the securest system is really important to us.

Oriel Morrison:It's, it's a big deal. I mean, obviously it's a big deal for Qantas, it's a big deal for the customers that have been impacted, and, and for your team. Um, it must have been a very difficult time. But a broader question is, is for every single corporate out there, every single company out there, this could happen to anyone. How— what does this mean going forward, do you think, when you look at the future? I mean, um, not— and again, not specifically for Qantas, but for the bigger picture of every company that's dealing with cybercrime.

Markus Svensson:Yeah. I mean, this is a reminder for everyone. This is a global issue. And I heard it on the panels talking about yesterday. We are working as fast as we can to protect our systems, our data, not just from a corporate perspective, but also for our customers. But these guys are as fast as us. So it's a real challenge. And I don't know where it's going to end, but we'll We have to be vigilant and it's just, it's about corporate but also us as individual to be very vigilant of what's going on because they're out there every day trying to get your data or some details that they believe is valuable.

Oriel Morrison:So a lot of this comes down to technology obviously, but technology is also exciting. So let's talk about the positives and what Qantas is doing, you know, with technology to improve the customer experience, to be more sustainable. All of those things that technology now allows.

Markus Svensson:Yes. I mean, technology, it's really exciting. And there was a couple of panels on or discussions about AI yesterday. And obviously technology, I think for airlines, is our friend. Obviously Virgin talked yesterday about tech debt. I think any airline, everybody who's in this industry knows there's a lot of still green screen around. So we have as an industry a huge task of of getting rid of those systems or get off those systems. But on the other hand, I think technology and AI is a huge opportunity. And it's not about replacing the human, as somebody said, it's really about being more efficient, providing better customer service. And we are investing in a number of areas when it comes to technology. So in the customer space, we're doing a lot of innovation investment. When it comes to operations, I think particularly around how you schedule your crew, how you run your schedule, how you do maintenance planning, AI particularly is going to provide huge opportunity. Having that said, we have already been in this space probably a bit more in silos than across the board. Our flight planning system has been using large language models for quite some time and so has our revenue management team and our revenue management system rather than the team. So we have the skill set in the business. Now it's really about bringing it across the board.

Oriel Morrison:What does that look like? Can you paint us a bit of a picture about, you know, what the next few years looks like specifically with AI and the integration of AI into all of your systems?

Markus Svensson:A couple of things. I mean, when you think about customer service, being able to service what's made more on the spot, making sure— and it's not just necessarily AI, it's actually making sure that our staff has to the data, the customer information in front of them so they can actually help the customer. So it's really about bringing it out to the frontline, being cabin crew, being airport staff, so you don't have to go to a call centre. We can actually help you here and now at the spot. That's one aspect. The second aspect is around operations, particularly how obviously an airline is, a network is quite a complicated thing. How do you make sure you get the best schedule, the best, you know, crew in the best way, make sure your crew is there. But also for our crew, it's going to help them to get a better work-life balance so we can have better patterns, not just for their flying but also for the crew. So I think there's multiple areas will really help us to improve the business.

Oriel Morrison:So I asked Dave yesterday if he was going to put on his— look into his crystal ball, what would it look like? What would the industry look like in 10 to 15 years from now? Can you paint us a little bit of a picture? I mean, he said it was a, you know, it wasn't an easy game to play.

Markus Svensson:Yeah, no, it's a great, great question. And I think whatever prediction I make, that will be wrong. One thing in this industry, we know it's a cyclical business. It does change over time and you don't know whatever's going to be around the corner. One thing I would say, 5 to 10 years now, I do believe the customer experience It's going to be significantly better. We will have caught up, I call it in the digital space, how we can serve customers. But also you look at technology, fleet technology, there will be much more available of it. So more fuel-efficient aircraft, more quiet aircraft. So, and I think that itself is very exciting. Exactly how it's going to play out, I think is really hard to predict.

Oriel Morrison:Yeah, well, the whole self-flying Flying, you know, sort of taxis and that sort of thing is there somewhere, isn't it?

Markus Svensson:Yeah, in the sense of, yes, I do think—

Oriel Morrison:Drones carrying people.

Markus Svensson:Yeah, I think that's more getting to the airport than actually— I generally believe that replacing big jet aircraft is quite, quite far away, definitely not in my lifetime. I think the energy that's required to get an aircraft off the ground, up in the sky, it's to be a challenge. But I do think maybe getting to the airport, a very short regional sectors, it definitely has its use.

Oriel Morrison:So, you know, obviously over the last few years on the economic front, it has been very difficult. Cost of living pressures, all of those sorts of things. What does demand look like to you now? And I should caveat that by saying obviously Qantas is, you know, just a few weeks ahead of releasing results, so there is only a certain amount that you can talk about. I understand that. With that caveat said, what does demand look like?

Markus Svensson:Demand is stable. I'd be not amazed, but I do think what we've seen since COVID and I know we don't like to talk about COVID people prioritise travel more. People might have pressures financially, but What they would have spent the money on in the past, now they want to really focus on travel. I think it's become more important to people. So I think the industry has definitely benefited from that. And that's a global thing, not just an Australian thing. So I'm really positive. I do believe people want to continue to travel. It is a really important part of people's life.

Oriel Morrison:It is a very important— get away from all of your problems or you move towards them. It depends on how you look at it.

Markus Svensson:Exactly.

Oriel Morrison:When we're looking at demand then, what does the corporate travel market look like now? Because obviously we're getting, seeing a little bit of a return to pre-COVID normality, and, you know, we're seeing people get on planes more than use Zoom. Obviously Zoom and all of those other platforms are still very much in use.

Markus Svensson:Yes, I can't be too specific, specific, but I know Simon put up a slide yesterday on the state of nation, and, and what we're seeing is, is Business travel is coming back. Is it back to where it was pre-COVID? Depends what sector you look at. So certain sectors are well ahead of COVID resource market being one, whereas if we call it the more white collar, it's still— Zoom has definitely done a bit of replacement there, but it hasn't gone away. I know there was people like Bill Gates who said 40% of business travel, it's gone, it's never going to come back. I can tell you, Bill Gates, you were completely wrong.

Oriel Morrison:I'm sure he's not often wrong.

Markus Svensson:He was wrong here.

Oriel Morrison:So what are your expectations then for going forward?

Markus Svensson:We continue to see it to grow, growing back slowly, but you're definitely there. It's not going away.

Oriel Morrison:Okay, so when you look at the demand picture then, you've got to throw competition into the picture. Again, I know that you were in the room when I spoke to Dave yesterday, but he was talking about the fact that they comfortably hold a third of the market right now in the domestic market. Is this a number with— are you confident, are you happy with two-thirds of the market? Do you agree with Virgin a third and Qantas two-thirds, you know, is that what it looks like from your perspective? You've got a very serious look on your face.

Markus Svensson:Let's be honest, we welcome competition. Competition is really good. It keeps us, everybody on our toes, and I think the benefit of that is the consumer. I just, I don't think it's really for me to comment on the market structure and his comments, but competition is good and we're going to do what we can And we're very committed to make sure we serve our customers in our segments. And yes, we have the benefits of having the Jetstar brand and the Qantas brand, so we can serve all aspects of the market and we'll continue to do that.

Oriel Morrison:And you're bringing more planes into the market from Asia?

Markus Svensson:That's correct. Some of them are going to go to our business in the, in the West. So our resource business, Network Aviation, and some of them will go into Jetstar. But it also will help us to retire some aircraft as well as, as we are going through the fleet renewal, both Jetstar and Qantas.

Oriel Morrison:So with fleet renewal, there are obviously the supply disruptions are still very much there. How are you dealing with those?

Markus Svensson:Yeah, they're still very much there. Obviously we, we dealt with them in a number of different ways. We obviously had to keep some of our aircraft a bit longer. We are getting 4 extra midlife 737s to cover for the delays on the A220s and A321XLRs. But we manage. And I think like every airline, you just got to keep your aircraft a little bit longer than you would have liked to originally. But that's how you manage because it's a global issue. It's not just an issue for us.

Oriel Morrison:Is there any capital raising in the future? Is that going to be required when it comes to fleet renewal?

Markus Svensson:No, I think for us, no, there's no plans for that. I'll be very clear on that. But obviously we have You know, we are spending a lot of money on aircraft, which is really important, and we're committed to make sure we can fund that.

Oriel Morrison:So let's talk about what's really exciting. This is the A321XLR. You have taken delivery of your first planes. What are your expectations in terms of fuel savings, efficiencies, etc.?

Markus Svensson:Yeah, first of all, very excited. And as I mentioned before, I had the benefit of being in Hamburg taking delivery of the first aircraft. It's unique. It's a big, big day for us and big day for Qantas and its domestic operations as it's replacing the 737. In terms of benefits, there's lots of benefits. There's the customer benefits. It's a bigger cabin, it's a new cabin, it's 60% more overhead locker space, which means that every customer can actually bring a roller bag with them.

Oriel Morrison:Wow.

Markus Svensson:So we know that's a big thing and it's a big thing in terms of getting away on time. And also taking away anxiety for customers traveling. So there's lots of customer benefits, obviously from an operational efficiency, the capability of that aircraft, where it can fly, the range, the fuel savings, and definitely a game changer for our domestic and I would say short-haul international business.

Oriel Morrison:So what are your plans for the aircraft? You're getting 28 with options on more. What are the plans in terms of where are they going to fly?

Markus Svensson:Yeah, well, we haven't made all— we haven't always made this decision. Obviously, we'll start off domestically as you get used to the aircraft, but obviously we're seeing it flying short-haul international as well. So that will evolve over time. I know we haven't— as we get them, we will obviously see how they perform, where the demand is, and then we'll flow them through the network.

Chris Chamberlin:Mm-hmm.

Markus Svensson:So there's no exact decision that's been made, although there is a lot of people internally lobbying me where we should fly them.

Oriel Morrison:Where does the majority want to see them?

Markus Svensson:Brisbane, Perth, and Bali is probably the most common asks I have.

Oriel Morrison:Interesting. Okay. All right. So Markus, obviously you are the CEO of Qantas Domestic, but you've been with Qantas for many years. You know the international side of the, you know, the business, you know, very, very well. How much do you think that on the international front demand is being impacted by geopolitics? I mean, there's so much going on out there. We've got the Trump tariffs, we've got, you know, what's going on in the Middle East, Ukraine, Russia, etc., etc. How much is demand being impacted by that?

Markus Svensson:Demand is— international has been stable as well. And the thing with international, every market is different. So Europe might be different to somewhere in Asia or the US or South America. But in general, it's definitely holding up and people still want to travel. Despite the Australian— I talk about Australians— Australian dollar's not being as strong as it's been in the past. The good thing for us is obviously for people coming into the country, it's really good and Australia has great value. And I think people don't overly appreciate that if you're coming from the US or UK at the moment, Australia has really good value.

Oriel Morrison:Do you see the politics of the world at the moment continuing to have that negative influence? I mean, there's a lot of concern about what's happening in the US.

Markus Svensson:The US market is, first of all, a really, really important market for us. And what we have seen in the US market is probably more currency-driven than anything else. So we've seen there's been a bit of softness out of Australia given it is very expensive. And I was in the US last week and I paid $10 for a coffee that absolutely tasted— yeah.

Oriel Morrison:Yeah.

Markus Svensson:So that was pretty expensive. So I think, so we are seeing that definitely Australians expensive for Australians to come. What we are seeing though is that Americans are coming here because it's really good value. So you're kind of balancing it off. And yes, coming to the US market, we are putting our A380 back to Dallas later this year. We're putting the 787 back on Brisbane-Los Angeles. So absolutely, it's an important market for us.

Oriel Morrison:What about the impact then on fuel prices? that we're seeing from all this geopolitical turmoil. Dealing with that as an airline obviously is hugely significant. What does that look like from your perspective?

Markus Svensson:Yes, I think if you, if you're in this job or in an airline job, you watch the fuel price every morning. Every day, one of the things you look at every morning you wake up. And again, we have a very extensive hedging policy that we've had for a long time. To minimise the impact, and, and that's still the way forward. But it's, it's out of your control and you've got to manage around it.

Oriel Morrison:Now I just wanted to point out to everybody in the room today, Markus has very kindly agreed to take questions from the audience. So in about 10 minutes' time, we will open to the floor. There will be a microphone going round, so we won't take Slido questions, but we will take questions on the mic. So have a think about it while we're having this discussion. If you want Markus to answer a question, be kind. Please feel free to do that. Now let's talk about Project Sunrise.

Chris Chamberlin:Yes.

Oriel Morrison:And what you're doing there. I know it's something that you're very passionate about. Tell us about what we can expect.

Markus Svensson:Yeah, first of all, it's super exciting. I think anybody who's in this industry, being able to connect any point literally on the globe is, is, you know, the last frontier for aviation. Um, so it's very, very exciting. We, we know, and we've been— I think we, we learned a lot about ultra-long-haul flying, so we know the customers want it, they're willing to pay for it. So it's very exciting. So obviously the aircraft is right now being manufactured in, in France. It will start to put together in a couple of months' time, and then we'll have the first aircraft here somewhere in 2026. And then hopefully the first sunrise flight in '27. So yeah, really exciting. It is definitely the last frontier in aviation, and we've done a lot to make sure the customer experience is great because it is a long, long flight. But I mean, from a personal perspective, I'd rather go direct than having to stop in a hub.

Oriel Morrison:What does that look like, the customer experience? I mean, if we're going to jump on one of these planes in 2027, what can we expect?

Markus Svensson:Obviously very nice seats in all cabins. We have the rest, or the— I can't remember the name we call it, the zone where you can actually go up and stretch for economy cabin passengers. We've done a lot of work and we've had a lot of experience. We've done Perth-London, we do Sydney-Dallas, Melbourne-Dallas, Sydney-Auckland, New York. So we've actually gained a lot of experience over the years of how you When you serve your food, how you do your lighting, all of those kind of things just to help people have as comfortable a journey as possible and feel as fresh as possible when they get to the other destination.

Oriel Morrison:Now, one thing that has been a bit of a theme in this conference certainly and is extremely important in the airline industry is sustainability.

Chris Chamberlin:Yes.

Oriel Morrison:And what you're doing on that front. What do you think, I mean, we had some fairly funny comments in the quiz last night About this, but what is your view on SAF, sustainable aviation fuel, and its place in the airline industry?

Markus Svensson:Um, I mean, we, we are, uh, we've got to earn the right to be, and we've got to earn the right to travel, and you can only do that by being sustainable. So I think it's one of the biggest issues that face the industry. Uh, as Qantas, we're very committed to, to both SAF and reducing our carbon footprint. And I think we have to as an industry because, not that I think it's going to happen what happened in Europe here, but we've got to be very committed. And it's a long journey, it's a hard journey, it's not an easy journey, but it's going to need all our collective effort to make sure we get enough SAF, we get the offsets, and to be frank, get customers to pay for it as well.

Oriel Morrison:Is that the answer? Is it SAF? Is it hydrogen? Is it, you know, what is the answer to this massive problem?

Markus Svensson:I think there's lots of answers and there's probably long debates and there's different opinions out there. I think here and now SAF is the answer. There might be other technologies in the future, but I think they're quite far away, unfortunately.

Oriel Morrison:So this is a challenge for the airline industry as we've just been talking about, but a challenge as a CEO as well. And as a leader of an aviation business, what has been most difficult for you? You've been in the role since 2023. What's been your biggest challenge since then?

Markus Svensson:I think I was part of, call it when we stopped the airline pre-COVID, and I think any airline in the world underestimated how hard it is to restart an airline. I'm not just talking about Qantas, I'm talking about every single airline in the world. And getting the operational performance back, improvements back, has been absolutely the biggest challenge. Getting aircraft out of storage, making sure the air traffic control system has enough people so we don't get delays, finding enough skilled workers because a lot of people left the industry. So multiple challenges which kind of all boil down to that operational performance wasn't the way we were lucky to be when we came out of it. So we spent a lot of time the last 2 years of really making sure we are getting back and being better than we were in the past.

Oriel Morrison:What did this mean for you on a personal level as a leader?

Markus Svensson:A number of things. I think in our industry, you're only as good as your last flight in terms of our customers. And I think you've got to remember that every day. So You're just gonna first of all get a great team. And when you have a great team, that team focus on, on driving that improvements and making sure customers get there on time. We don't cancel the flights. And it's a day in, day out. You can't stop. It's relentless. But that's why we love this industry. It is relentless. So, and there is no silver bullets. You just gotta get on top of it all the time.

Oriel Morrison:So what would you, what would you want the people in this room to walk away with if they were gonna take one thing about you as a lead— as a leader, what would it be?

Markus Svensson:Passion, I think, definitely passion. I'm very passionate also about, I think one thing that makes me tick and one reason I joined Qantas, it's just amazing people. I think the frontline staff we have, pilots, cabin crew, airports, engineers, just their passion and commitment to get customers to their destination every day is is second to none and something I'm incredibly proud of, and I, and I think us as a business should be really proud of. So for me, it's, it's the passion and, and leveraging and using that passion to make sure we get our customers to where they need to be.

Oriel Morrison:All right, well, on that note, I'm going to see if we've got any questions from the audience. We've got one in the front here. Please just get a microphone coming to you.

Chris Chamberlin:Good morning. Chris Chamberlin from Point Hacks. I was going to ask you a question on the loyalty side for domestic travellers. There are, at the moment, it's fair to say, a significant number of frequent flyers at your major domestic competitor who are a little disgruntled at a change to revenue-based spend to earn status. I was going to ask you if you're seeing any uptick on your business travel bookings, in status match requests to grab some of those premium frequent flyers, and indeed if you're considering any revenue-based changes to QFF of your own?

Markus Svensson:Okay, quite a lot of that in that question, Chris. No, we're not considering a revenue-based program. I can confirm that. In terms of, you talked about status, I think we do our status campaigns. We know they're highly successful and we know they're very valued by our but our tiered customers or tiered frequent flyers. For us, we are monitoring our share both in the corporate and the small to medium enterprise market, and we are doing really well in that space.

Oriel Morrison:Another question just over here. Hello, Robyn Ironside from The Australian. Markus, when you were talking about unmanned aircraft possibly doing like airport runs or in the regional space, is that something that Qantas would consider branching into and having its own fleet of unmanned aircraft?

Markus Svensson:Right now we have no plans for that, no. But obviously we are watching what's happening, particularly in the regional space. So what's happening with electric aircraft in the regional space. Given that there's not many— there's only one manufacturer left of turboprops in the world. So somehow that fleet has to be replaced in 10, 20 years. So we're watching that space.

Oriel Morrison:You must be scary, Markus. Are there any other questions for Markus from the floor? I've got a question over here. It's not often I'm sure you guys get the opportunity to sit down with the CEO of Qantas Domestic, so if you've got a question, don't be shy. This is a safe space and he's not as scary as he looks.

Markus Svensson:I don't think I look scary at all.

Adrian Schofield:Hi, Markus.

Markus Svensson:Ruwaid Ganguly from the ACCC. I'm just wondering if you're able to share any insights on future market, like any market segments that you currently operate in or targeting in the future and like growth opportunities? Domestically or internationally?

Adrian Schofield:Domestically.

Markus Svensson:I mean, we evaluate new markets all the time. I think that's been one of our strengths out coming out of COVID We actually increased the number of domestic routes significantly point to point. It all comes down to demands and the economics stacking up, but I don't have any specifics right now, but it is obviously a constant process. And we have met with some of the tourism boards of the states here that obviously want us to fly certain routes. And we're always going to have a look at that. If there's demand, we would love to fly them.

Chris Chamberlin:Thanks.

Oriel Morrison:Do we have any other questions from the floor? One over here, please, in the front. Just up the front here.

Markus Svensson:Hi Markus, I'm Lisa with American Express.

Oriel Morrison:I'd love to know what other airlines you admire and why. That's a great question.

Markus Svensson:What a good question, excellent question. I admire a lot of— first of all, I think Qantas is a fantastic airline, so I am biased. Okay, but having that said, we We're not the best in everything. Very hard to be best at everything. There's a couple of airlines I think are doing a really good job that I think we could learn from. If you think in Europe, I do think the way that a lot of European carriers has improved their on-time performance in a very difficult environment. So I've been talking a lot to Scandinavian lately, the way, you know, coming from Sweden, but now they've got the best ATP in the world, so we're learning from that. I always, I think Emirates are a partner. I think what they've done with having a consistent product and the way they built that network and the vision that Sir Tim had and other people in Emirates to build that Dubai hub, I think it's, you know, it's really something to admire. So, and then I think on the digital front, although they are a competitor to us, I think what United has done with the app and the customer experience is really I think definitely something to look up to. And then if you look at Delta, what they've done on baggage tracking, it's— and we are almost there and beating them in terms of having less lost bags. But yeah, that's the goalpost in that sense. So different aspects, but great question. Thank you.

Oriel Morrison:What do you think Qantas needs to really pull up on?

Markus Svensson:I want us to be operationally the best airline in the world. We, we are getting there. And I think particularly managing— I think something we also need to be world best is managing fleet transition. We've got a massive fleet transition coming. There's a lot of airlines who have stuffed that up.

Chris Chamberlin:Mm-hmm.

Markus Svensson:So frankly speaking, over the years, and getting that right is, is, is gonna be a big challenge for us.

Oriel Morrison:But if we do it well, We've got a question over at the back there. We can't hear you.

Adrian Schofield:Sorry about that. It's Adrian Schofield with Aviation Week and CAPA. Markus, I wonder if you could just talk a little bit more about the A321XLR delivery stream, maybe sort of how many more you're expecting by the end of the year, and And when we might see the first one on an international route? Like, might that occur this year sometime?

Markus Svensson:OK. So we are getting 3 before Christmas, so second one coming August, and then a third one in October. And we hope to have 7 by end of June next year. We actually haven't made a decision. I said a lot of people are lobbying me internally of when and where we're flying internationally. So we haven't made that decision. We will make that decision in due course.

Oriel Morrison:But there may be Brisbane-Perth.

Markus Svensson:Well, that's what people are lobbying me for internally. It'd be a great route because right now a 737 cannot make that without payload. So that would be a fantastic route for the A321.

Oriel Morrison:Or is it Brisbane-Bali or Sydney-Bali?

Markus Svensson:We don't fly Brisbane-Bali today.

Oriel Morrison:Yet.

Markus Svensson:Well, if there was traffic rights available, it may be a different story.

Oriel Morrison:No pressure here, Markus. We've got another question up the front here.

Chris Chamberlin:Hi Markus, Ryan from Brisbane Airport. I'm just wondering if you could talk a little bit about how customer behaviour's changed. Do customers value different things coming out of the pandemic? And maybe in Jetstar versus Qantas, have you seen any changes in what people look for?

Markus Svensson:I think as an airline group, we're very clear on the customer segments we serve. You have to be. I think if there's one thing I would've said a change is probably people value their time even more so. And I think that's across all segments. We know definitely for the segments we serve, customers want certain things. They want the frequent flyer benefits, they want the lounges. And I think it's probably At least it was important pre-COVID, but it's probably even more important now. But I think if there's one I would say, it's generally time. And I think, you know, generally you talk with other airlines, people's expectations definitely increased, which I think is a good thing, and it's pushing us to be better all the time.

Oriel Morrison:We're just about out of time. Do we have any other questions coming in? Well, Markus, let me ask you, what's next for Qantas? What does it look like for you if we look over the next 12 months?

Markus Svensson:Um, there's a lot of exciting things. Um, one, obviously, first commercial flight with XLR. Can't wait for that. Obviously, we've got to do the training and we've got to get it certified. I wish that went faster, but it is what it is. And then just continue to get, you know, continue with the fleet renewal, continue to improve the business, continue to deliver for our customers. And then obviously eventually we get into Sunrise as well. So yeah, really 12, really exciting 12 months.

Oriel Morrison:How many, how many new routes are you considering at the moment, if any?

Markus Svensson:As I said, we're always looking at it. I think it's as in anybody in the industry right now, it's aircraft delivery is really the key for that. So depending on how deliveries goes and if they're coming. We'll obviously look at new routes, but I have nothing in mind and nothing to announce today.

Oriel Morrison:Well, you just talked about making sure that this fleet expansion and the transition goes really well. There's a lot of moving parts with a transition like this, especially with these supply disruptions. How are you going to ensure that you do do it well after watching other airlines stuff it up?

Markus Svensson:I think a couple of things. First of all, we have a very dedicated team We definitely put our best people onto it. Second one, learn. Learn from your mistake. Look what other airlines has done, what didn't they get wrong. And I think planning, planning is massive. We have learned that lesson ourselves. If you don't plan ahead, because it's just not the aircraft, it's the pilots, it's the training of engineers, all that stuff. And then you've got infrastructure as well. So it's a big plan.

Oriel Morrison:Yeah.

Markus Svensson:And you've got to be really on top of it and making sure that you manage it on a daily basis.

Oriel Morrison:So I want to know how many people out here have done the simulation out in the downstairs area. I think it's Singapore Airlines that have got the flight— they're not flight simulators. But has anybody done that? Nobody's done that? Put on the goggles? Nobody's done that. I was asking Markus if he'd done it. He hasn't done it either. No.

Markus Svensson:But I just said, I understand this is more for travel, but these VR headsets, I mean, we're using new technology. We're using them for pilot and cabin crew training at the moment. And it's actually a great way of actually cutting down the time in simulators for very kind of routine tasks or in the galley. So it's a fantastic tool and we're using it quite a bit now for our training. Pilot and cabin crew training.

Oriel Morrison:Fantastic. All right, ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together for Markus Svensson.

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