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Recorded at CAPA Live March

Airline CEO Interview - United Airlines

One of the world’s largest airlines, United Airlines operates an extensive domestic, regional and international network of services from its main hubs at Chicago O’Hare, Denver, Houston George Bush, Los Angeles, Newark Liberty, San Francisco, Washington Dulles and Guam airports. 

The airline has pledged to reduce 100% of its greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 and will continue to invest in sustainable aviation fuel. United has announced a multimillion dollar investment in 1PointFive, a partnership between Oxy Low Carbon Ventures and Rusheen Capital Management that utilises atmospheric carbon capture technology to physically remove CO2 from the air. 

The airline believes real improvement in passenger numbers will only happen in the fourth quarter once a critical mass of the US has been vaccinated.

In this session, United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby will explore how the pandemic has affected the carrier, and how they are moving towards more sustainable operations.  

CAPA Live is the most sought-after monthly global aviation event. Taking place on the second Wednesday of each month, thousands of industry colleagues from across the globe tune in for their monthly dose of aviation and travel news, analysis, and in-depth interviews with industry leaders. Register here to be part of our growing community. 

Transcript

Michael:

Well, terrific. Welcome to another edition of CAPA Live. We are honored today to have the Chief Executive Officer of United Airlines, Scott Kirby. Scott, welcome.

Scott Kirby:

Thank you, Michael. It's good to be here.

Michael:

Scott is one of the real veterans, even though he doesn't look like a veteran by age or career stage, but he's seen everything in this industry. From initially a US Air Force Academy, and then of course one of the key players at America West, US Airways, through merger American, and then for the past several years, President and CEO of United. So Scott, you bring a tremendous perspective and background to the discussion today. What we want to do is really talk about what you guys have done at United, both retrospectively over the past year in dealing with COVID, but importantly, looking ahead and what you're doing or planning on doing to both deal with getting the business back to where you'd like it. But also some of the more progressive things you guys are doing around the environment, sustainability and diversity, et cetera, which we commend you on for maintaining a focus on those in this difficult time.

Scott Kirby:

Thank you.

Michael:

Let's start by looking back. Did you ever think going back to even the dark ages, the dark times at a place like America West, that you'd see revenue drop from 39 billion to 12 in one year-

Scott Kirby:

Yes.

Michael:

... Scott-

Scott Kirby:

I did.

Michael:

... and how have you dealt with that?

Scott Kirby:

I did.

Michael:

You did.

Scott Kirby:

I've always been fond of never allowing people to say "worst case scenario," because I've always said there's something worse. Sadly, that turned out to be prophetic, because this is worse than everyone's downside planning scenarios. But I've been really proud of how we dealt with it at United. One of the keys for us was being realistic and accurate from the very beginning. We started literally the last weekend in February. So at this time a year ago we were having meetings before anyone else really thought it was a big issue. It was the next week really where the NBA shut down and everyone realized it was a big issue. We had been having meetings. And by this point in time, a year ago, we completed a $2 billion bridge financing deal and we'd already started cutting capacity. We'd already started the planning. We'd already started talking to our pilots union about a deal that we were going to need to do, and they were like, "What are you talking about?" at that point in time. We'd started all the planning ahead of time. And that really gave us a-

Michael:

So you jumped on it early and didn't have your head in the sand on this one. Amazing.

Scott Kirby:

Yeah. And that gave us a huge advantage, because we started with, at least for US airlines, probably the largest headwinds of anyone. We're the biggest business airline. We're the largest coastal gateway. It's by far the largest international airline, all places that got hit the hardest. And yet, if you go back and look at, and on any apples to apples basis, our cash burn for example going through, and you adjust it for size, we even beat the low cost carriers that are purely domestic. And so we've just done a really amazing job of that. And more importantly I think, we've set United up. United is going to be on the other side of this, the leading airline in global aviation. And it really started-

Michael:

And what is it you've... And just on that, Scott, what have you done to set yourself up? Is it on the cost side? Is it rethinking the business? What's the reset that's going to help you going forward?

Scott Kirby:

Well first, we really have used the opportunity to reset the business in all kinds of ways. But because we've been confident in our accuracy, back in April we concluded, and I'm sure we'll talk about this or perhaps we will later today, that business travel ultimately was going to come back. Almost everyone said that wasn't going to happen and still today a lot of people say it. We also reached the conclusion that our best guess was that international travel would also come back. It'd be slower because borders aren't going to come down yet, but once borders come down international travel's going to come back I think even stronger than domestic travel. And because of that...

So on the network side we've made unique decisions. Basically, every other large global carrier in the world retired big chunks of their wide body fleet. I think we're now 5% larger in terms of wide body fleet than we were when the pandemic started. We were the only ones that did that because we had a different view of what the recovery looked like. We've had a huge focus on changing the customer culture. We were going to do that before, but the pandemic gave us new opportunities to do it. Things like, some of the tangible items were permanently eliminating change fees, was one of the big ones. But those kinds of things also led to convincing our employees that we were serious about changing the customer culture. And I also think the shock of in March and April of last year, seeing four or five people on an airplane, not that anyone took customers for granted, but it emphasized how important, and those are the people that pay our salaries going forward.

Michael:

You couldn't ask for a better burning platform than that, right?

Scott Kirby:

Yeah.

Michael:

Just to paint the picture of the need for change, right?

Scott Kirby:

Yeah. And those are things... We've done a lot of with costs too, but those are the kinds of things that set us up to be different than everyone else on the other side of the crisis.

Michael:

So just talk about that while... You mentioned the business travel. There are some people, and I have a bit of this myself, who think that we were in transition. It's like the newspaper business. It's sort of slowly going away and then suddenly it drops down. We were in transition to more virtuality anyway, and this helped us just jump the curve and that a good chunk of business travel just won't come back, ever. It's not a question of fear for safety. It's just a lifestyle change. Do you guys see that differently, Scott?

Scott Kirby:

Yeah, I do. And I admit that I have a view that is not the consensus. Almost everyone disagrees with it. But business travel is not transactional. It's about relationships. And reading a newspaper on a piece of paper or online is transactional. It doesn't make any difference, because you read a newspaper alone. But going to an event like this and socializing with people and having drinks, that's where you get to know people. That's the people you can pick up the phone and call when you need them. And we're not going to get that here today. You're going to hear from me and me only. And if we were doing this in person somewhere, you would hear that. But then I would get to know a bunch of you and know something about you and your families and develop a relationship after. This is human nature. This is a question about human nature instead of technology. And human nature has not changed. I've been fond of saying, the first time someone loses a sale to a competitor who showed up in person is the last time we'll do a sales call on Zoom, and I think that's going to be true. And it's about human nature instead of the transactional piece of [crosstalk 00:07:37]

Michael:

Well, you also need to look at what was happening... If you look at what was happening to international travel, period, before COVID, it was just surging and booming because of the globality of the world nowadays. People want to get out and see the rest of the world, right? So you feel that that force and human nature will trump the concerns as it were.

Scott Kirby:

And look, people were having this conversation 20, 25 years ago when video conferencing first started, the death of business travel, and it was just wrong. It was wrong then and it's wrong... It is exactly the same conversation. Maybe the technology's a little better, but it's exactly the same conversation. It's just not-

Michael:

What are you guys doing to restore the business travel? You've done some things around the change fees, et cetera, glad to hear those are permanent. Hopefully that'll be the case for the industry. I think everyone's welcomed that. But what are you guys doing or thinking of doing to get the business traveler to come back sooner?

Scott Kirby:

I don't know that per se we can get the business traveler to come back soon but we are trying to make the flying experience for everyone different. Instead of being a necessary, but unwelcome part of your wonderful vacation or business trip, to make the travel experience better. I'm prone to saying with our employees when I talk to them that I condense my job down to two simple things. One, make all of our employees proud, and two, get our customers to like us. And hopefully someday we'll convince them to love us, but first step, get them to like us. And that's about running a great airline, being honest, being transparent. But it's more than that.

I've kind of always knew this but have been pleasantly surprised at the actions we've taken on climate change, for example. I get some of the most emotional, positive feedback of anything that we've done, really changing how people feel about United Airlines by standing for something that's bigger than just being an airline. And I'm more and more convinced that we actually have a platform that we can do things to change the world. We're doing a lot at United on climate change. It's not just about what we're doing on... And I'm sure we'll talk about it, but we've also [crosstalk 00:09:48] had an opportunity to change the conversation with others, and we're going to have a magnified impact because we have a big, we have a high profile brand, and we have a platform, that we can have a magnified impact.

Michael:

Yeah. Scott, let's go to that. But before I just forgot to mention to our audience that you are welcome to put questions to Scott here. There's a chat box that you can use to add them. We'll take a look at them and try to weave them into the conversation. So, you went there so let's go there.

Scott Kirby:

If I don't like the questions I'm going to pretend I have a bad wifi connection.

Michael:

You can tell me which ones are not good there, Scott.

Scott Kirby:

I'm just kidding.

Michael:

You guys made a pretty big commitment, by 2050 to reduce your greenhouse gas emissions by 100%. That's a bold thing to do. It's a bold thing to do and to hold to in COVID. Usually we see things like environmental sustainability kind of go by the wayside when survival is at stake, right? So tell us about that, why, you sort of touched on it, and how? What do you guys plan on doing that way?

Scott Kirby:

It's even bigger than that. Because others have committed to 100% net-zero, other companies at least. What we did, we called it 100% green, which is different than the net-zero [inaudible 00:11:04]. And a big, big difference, the most important difference, is that we committed to getting to 100% without using carbon offsets. Today, basically everyone that says they're going to get to net-zero uses carbon offsets. And the truth is that carbon offsets, most of them aren't even real. But even if they were real, [crosstalk 00:11:25]

Michael:

You're just going to do actual reduction, 100% reduction of [crosstalk 00:11:29]

Scott Kirby:

First of all, what we're going to do is reduction through things like sustainable aviation fuel is a huge component of what we're doing. But the other one is direct air capture and sequestration. And unlike a carbon offset, which is basically planting trees. And by the way, we produce 4,000 times as many annual emissions since the industrial era began. We simply can't plant 4,000 times as many trees. There's not space on the planet. But what we can do and what we're doing is we're a partner with Oxy 1.5 and the first, what will be the world's largest direct air capture and sequestration. It sucks carbon directly out of the atmosphere and permanently stores it underground so it's permanently gone. It's not a tree that's going to die later and put the carbon back into the atmosphere. It permanently stores the carbon underground. And each plant can store the equivalent of planting 40 million trees per year. This is what the solution ultimately has to be.

And what I hate about traditional carbon offset programs is so many companies are using them, and they are a fig leaf to, for a CEO to write a check, check a box, pretend that they've done the right thing for sustainability when they haven't made one wit of difference in the real world. And so we're focused on something that can really make a difference. And that's why, like I say, that as we're looking at changing how people feel about aviation, this conversation, when I have it with people in Washington, DC, or other places that actually understand climate change, it completely changes their perspective of United and it's a real opportunity for us to lead.

Michael:

And what's been the driver of United's conviction around this? Why has this become so important to you guys over the past year or so?

Scott Kirby:

Yeah. Well, I apologize for sounding egotistical about the answer, but the honest answer is because it's a personal passion of mine. I've cared about it, thought it. I can remember being in college at the Air Force Academy and reading the early research and articles in science journals about climate change and the potential for what climate change meant, literally 35, 40 years ago. And it became clear, in the '90s it was clear that it was happening, and it's taken us far too long to accept the scientific reality. And the problem with climate change is, there are these dramatic tipping points that could happen. The change of the Gulf Stream, where it no longer warms Europe. And there's some others that are just these dramatic tipping points that fundamentally alter our societies and how we can live. And they're irreversible once they happen. They're [inaudible 00:14:04], they could reverse in tens of thousands of years, but they're essentially irreversible. And it is the defining issue for our generation to solve, and I now have a platform in a position where we can actually make a difference. And as far as [crosstalk 00:14:18]

Michael:

And you talked about making employees proud. Is this something you feel like is a bit of a rallying cry for them that they can get behind as well? Scott, are you guys using it that way to get everyone aligned?

Scott Kirby:

It absolutely is. That's not the explicit goal. The explicit goal is to do the right thing. But what you find, and we've got a bunch of things that are happening with diversity, equity and inclusion that fit into a similar category. When you start just doing the right thing instead of focusing on the transactional elements of the business, it really starts to change how people feel. Employees, customers, people in Washington, DC, the general public. It really starts to change how people feel about it.

One of my stories that I love on climate change is after our big climate change announcement I was... I'm here in Dallas and this is where my family lives, and I was running and I was a mile and a half, two miles from the house. The Sun wasn't even up so it was dark outside. And somebody stopped me, a stranger stopped me, which kind of annoyed me at first because it's the middle of my run. But she stopped me to say, "I saw what United did for climate change. Thank you. You know, your announcement. It was just really positive." And this is here. This is a relatively small market for United. I had no idea she would even know who I was. But the point is, while that was an anecdote, that's the kind of thing that really, really makes a difference and people can feel passionately about.

Michael:

Yeah. Do you think as well, you're talking about changing the conversation, that you guys were able to get your board, your employees, your investors to see this as good business. Because the historical view was, well, we don't have time or money for that right now. That costs money and we need to survive versus... Uh-uh (negative). Just like the diversity discussion. Diversity isn't just doing the right thing. It's actually good for business. You're a better company. Is there a change in the conversation that way?

Scott Kirby:

It varies. Look, I'll say it this way. It depends on your perspective. If you are a very short-term-oriented investor, which we have a whole bunch of, that are worried about what is RASM next quarter. You don't care at all about this because it's not going to affect RASM next quarter. If you're a long-term investor, if you don't care about it, you're wrong. Because either carrots or sticks, this is coming, and being able to lead is going to be better for our shareholders in the longterm. So I think really from an investor perspective, it depends on whether you are a day trader and you're focused on what's going to happen next week, or if you're buying for the longterm. And I'm focused on the long-term so... that's [crosstalk 00:16:57]

Michael:

Good. I remember Calin Rovinescu making it very clear to invest things. These are the investors we want, the ones that are in with us for the long haul, right? Not the short haul.

Scott Kirby:

Yeah.

Michael:

Scott, let's go to one of the questions that's been asked here, and it is one we were going to ask you about any way. The US carriers have finally gotten some support from the US government through this pandemic. It was necessary. It's been helpful. It's come with some strings attached, et cetera. But do you think that this changes the game, has any ramifications relative to the historical issue around... The US carriers would knock on the Gulf or international carriers who were getting unfair subsidies, et cetera. What's the ramification of airlines like United and others getting US funds?

Scott Kirby:

Well, in short, I think it really doesn't change the conversation at all. A once in a lifetime or once in a century crisis, governments basically around the world, this isn't unique to the US, almost around the world with a few exceptions, but mostly around the world have supported aviation. Not just aviation, but they've supported aviation as a critical part of the infrastructure, just like they've supported other parts of the economy that were hit by COVID through no fault of their own. And so I think that is a unique situation, as opposed to just ongoing regular support-

Michael:

Ongoing subsidies.

Scott Kirby:

... of businesses that don't have a workable business model. We were profitable before, we're going to be profitable after. We were self-sustaining before, we're going to be self-sustaining afterwards. That's true of us. That's true of Air France. That's true of Lufthansa. That's true of Air New Zealand. Around the world, that's true. And the difference is, if you were losing money before, you're going to be losing money afterwards without state support. I think that's a different kind of state subsidy you're getting through [crosstalk 00:18:58].

Michael:

We saw, I think internationally and certainly domestically, rationalization in the industry. This idea that every country has a God-given right to have an airline. Maybe it was going away. Some marginal countries didn't. LATAM's a good example. It represents multiple countries in the region, et cetera. Do you think that this sort of crisis could work adversely towards that rationalization by having some governments say, uh-oh, we're never going to let our airline go away and prop it up for years to come because they saw the risk of what COVID could do to eliminate their existence, if you will. Could that lead to some irrational activity for you guys?

Scott Kirby:

Yeah. I don't know is the short answer. And I think it varies. I don't think there's one answer. There's some governments around the world that are supporting airlines when the home country, frankly, isn't large enough to have an airline close to the size that they want to support, but they're choosing to do that. There's others, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see an expansion of, I'll call it the IAG model, where airlines form groups. There's still Iberia, Aer Lingus, British Airways. There are still national airlines, but by being together they create some kinds of synergies and support for one another. I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't happen in some regions of the world because it can create value and still be good for each of the home airlines. But it really is dependent on situation by situation. What are the local governments [crosstalk 00:20:33]

Michael:

So, you could see an increase in the creation or the expansion of the IAGs of the world, given that they can help sustain a carrier but make it part of the bigger, healthier network, if you will.

Scott Kirby:

Yeah. It may not happen, but it would certainly I think be logical and so I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen. I think it could be good for the airlines involved in it, and for the countries, for employment. It's one of those things that can be a win-win-win if you can get over the social issues of putting two airlines together.

Michael:

Right. Scott, you talked about the fact that your exposure to the reduction in international travel was higher because you have the most coastal gateways, the biggest international presence, et cetera. The old sort of view, the conventional view of United is you always had the best network, and connectivity through Star, et cetera. One of the questions being asked here is, do you see... Now that can cut the other way and people want at that, right? So do you see, for example, Jet Blue, coming into launch European operation as a problem for you guys? And what does that mean for loyal New York or otherwise-based Jet Blue passengers who go, "Oh, I like Mint. I think I'll try that," going to London next time?

Scott Kirby:

The short answer is no. I think actually the European market is going to be one of the strongest markets in the world coming out of this. Because there were players in the Atlantic who had a business, they've never made money. They had a business model that had no chance of ever making money. And it was just a matter of how long they were going to keep burning the furniture to keep flying and pricing the product below their costs, and they've gone away. And you contrast that with Jet Blue coming into the market, and Jet Blue, they're a good competitor, but flying once a day into Gatwick compared to us flying, a narrow body once a day into Gatwick compared to us flying six flights a day on wide bodies with Polaris seats into Heathrow [inaudible 00:22:35] traffic.

Michael:

Okay. A followup question to what was... We were talking about IAG. One of the questions is, do you think we'll actually see more consolidation in terms of takeovers, troubled state carriers getting taken over by a Lufthansa group or IAG, or more joint ventures? What is your view on that, and what model do you think will likely come about?

Scott Kirby:

Yeah. Well, I'll answer it two ways. The short answer is I don't know. And the reason... There's economic rationale for it. I think it's the right thing to happen if the entities could be good for the customers. But the social issues, to use the term that is appropriate, get in the way of it. And so I just don't know if people will be able to overcome the social issues or not. There's certainly upside to be created through taking actions like that, but you got to have two willing parties to get a deal done.

Michael:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Do you see more consolidation coming in the US? Will some of the bigger name carriers disappear once the support goes away?

Scott Kirby:

Look, we've all... Everyone is raised... At the beginning of the crisis I thought there was going to be, or at least there was a good chance. But we've been able to raise so much liquidity, not just through the government but through the private capital markets, that no one has a liquidity issue. Everyone is going to survive. The reason I thought it would happen earlier is because the choice would be something even worse and no one is faced with that choice today, and so I don't think there'll be any major consolidation here in the US, but I guess we'll see.

Michael:

Well, you guys have done a remarkable job. 26 billion, I think last year. That must be a record of some sort. Kudos to you guys.

Scott Kirby:

It's a good record and a bad record. I wish we didn't have to do it, but I'm glad we were able to do it.

Michael:

The core capability of an airline now is raising capital, right?

Scott Kirby:

Yeah, yeah.

Michael:

Scott, we've talked about the business side. On the leisure side, you look at Frontier, Sun Country, they're taking their airlines public with their filings and actions over the last month or so. A couple of startups, David Neeleman, Andrew Levy got startups going, again, targeting the leisure sector. There was a view that, well, first of all, that is largely what's back. I think I shared before. We started off taking a hundred flights since COVID, 85 of them for leisure. Not for business, right? What does that mean for you guys? Is it a little different because you think you're going to continue to focus on the business side? How are you dealing with the, let's say the increasing strength and maybe new entry of leisure-oriented players in the US?

Scott Kirby:

Well, first I think it's a misnomer to talk about the strength, because it's a short-term phenomenon. It is true that the leisure and domestic market is going to be the first to recover. But I will bet you dollars to donuts that in 2023 long haul international is going to be outperforming domestic by a very wide margin. It's just a timing issue. And I think another big difference, certainly I can speak for United, what has propelled the low cost carriers in past recessions are fuel price spikes, because airlines like United would shrink and just surrender market share to them. So it was easy. One of the analysts-

Michael:

Oh, they'd open the door.

Scott Kirby:

Yeah. One of the analysts wrote last week, this is what he hopes happens, actually, I think, but that when times are tough, the network carriers push back from the table and leave the table scraps for the low cost carriers, and everyone is happy. I can promise you, United Airlines is not doing that. We just did another order. We're going to take delivery of more airplanes, narrow body airplanes for domestic growth in 2022 and 2023 than we ever have, 94 aircraft that are coming. Compare that 94 aircraft to the fleet size of some of those other airlines and that'll give you a scale of what we're planning to do. We're going to be back on... The growth plan was working great at United before, and the competitive environment I think is going to be different, with the historical experience is going to be different. Because we're certainly going to be in the game. And, it's hard to overstate I think for our traveling public, the importance of the changes that we're making to get customers to choose to fly United. Change fees is one of the big ones. That's a huge disadvantage for people.

Michael:

Is that going to stick, Scott, are we going to see the majors do-

Scott Kirby:

That's permanent.

Michael:

... a grab again [crosstalk 00:27:27]?

Scott Kirby:

No, that is, look, that's something I've wanted to do for 20 years, but because it's a billion dollar decision you kind of have to be the CEO to make that decision. That's the only person that can make a billion dollar decision, and so that one is permanent.

Michael:

Good.

Let's talk a little bit about what this crisis has meant for you as a leader. You've progressed very nicely in your career to get in the top spot of one of the biggest airlines in the world. Hit by this crisis now. You've had a chance maybe to marry what you see as important. You talked about climate with your leadership. What is this COVID crisis taught you about yourself, your leadership? How has it changed how you lead?

Scott Kirby:

I like to think that... It's probably a better question to ask the people who work for me, if they can answer honestly. I've accelerated a decade's worth of leadership learning into just a few months, actually. And some of the lessons have been to be open, honest, transparent. It's been my natural style. You can probably tell as I talk about something like this. But to encourage debate and to encourage and airing of different opinions because you get to the best answer. And amazingly, despite being virtual, I think our bonds, certainly for our executive team, are far stronger today.

We spend hours a week on conferences, virtual conferences like this, three times a week. We worked seven days a week when it all started. But three times a week for a couple of hours a day, we talk about things. We discuss topics. We discuss topics where there's no answer. But we mostly do those few hours without PowerPoint. That's because I like conversation far better than having somebody drawing a PowerPoint slide for me. And that has helped us create an environment where I think we get to the best answer, even in a world of lots of uncertainty, even if we don't know this is the answer, because everyone is free to express opinion.

Michael:

What's helped you bring the team closer together or align you guys better? Is it facing a common crisis, or is it something else? What precipitated your ability to do that?

Scott Kirby:

Well, facing a common crisis was the starting point. But then I think there's been an awful lot of pride at what we have accomplished together. And I think without question, we've done better than the airline [inaudible 00:30:09] going through this. And we had a lot of times where we were taking heat, getting criticized. We took a lot of heat for being the first airline to require masks. And I think we were the first large consumer brand that I know of that required masks. But then a few weeks later, everyone in the world, almost everyone was doing it, and so there was a lot of pride. There were moments where we'd get on earnings calls or things and our competitors would say, "Oh, everything is fine. Everything's coming back," and we would be negative and everyone would criticize us. And then a month later our competitors are saying, "Oh, it's not fine." It's just this increasing sense of pride. All kinds of firsts. The amount of firsts that we had, and only things that we're doing. We're not going to have time to talk about it today. [crosstalk 00:30:56]

Michael:

I was astounded, preparing for this, I was astounded with the number of firsts that you guys have done. It's really quite remarkable. So it's a bold thing to do, right?

Scott Kirby:

Yeah. And to the leadership point, that's the culture change that we've created. Let's go do stuff. Let's go try stuff. Let's not get lost in a big bureaucracy, even though we're a big company. We're doing so much more. That cultural change is one of the biggest changes that's going to propel United forward because... I don't know everything that we're going to do two years from now. One of the other things I'd say about leadership, at the start of the crisis, a lot of the times I was saying how about this, how about this, how about this? I, today, am much more of the cheerleader where I sit on calls. If people are telling me something like, "Oh my God, that's brilliant. I wish I'd have thought of that. Why didn't I think of that?" I do a lot less of the idea generation today than I did in most of my career because it's better to-

Michael:

You've opened the door to-

Scott Kirby:

People are comfortable with it.

Michael:

You encouraged them to have that open discussion and debate, put their ideas forward versus necessarily turning to you for all the answers, right?

Scott Kirby:

Right.

Michael:

Okay.

Well, we are coming up to the close of our session. You've staked a pretty interesting position. As you said, it's a bold one. It's a little different than some other carriers, which is good to see. It sounds like you're not abandoning any of your markets, et cetera. The question is, Scott, is would you be willing to maybe come back in six months or maybe a year to revisit and see how your projections are coming along and what you guys have done about it?

Scott Kirby:

Yeah. Well, I'll hope to do it in person somewhere.

Michael:

How about we do that.

Scott Kirby:

I'd be happy to talk to you again, and I hope we get to do it in person somewhere. I think we will. Six months. We ought to be back in person.

Michael:

Well, we know how busy you are. It's great that you've empowered your team to allow you to this time to join us today. We thank you for your candid and very insightful views on United and the industry, and we congratulate you on your success to date, so-

Scott Kirby:

Thanks, Michael.

Michael:

... well done, Scott, and we'll stay in touch.

Scott Kirby:

Yep. Bye.

Michael:

Take care.

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